10K to spend in upgrades, need idea's?!?

[ardenq 14]

Hey guys,

 

I'm new to mustangs, but not new to this car addiction.

 

I had a chance to buy my uncles high school car that he said he would never sell. It's a 70 Mach 1 and although the wife gave me a hard budget I'm hoping I can get all the upgrades done since it won't happen again.

 

A little about the car: 70 Mach 1 351C, 4 speed, manual drums, P/S, Non A/C. It was restored over the last 30 years and it's been done for a bit it really hasn't been driven too much. What I do know is I would like it to be updated to make it more modern to drive. The good news is the body, paint, interor and engine are in excellent condition.

 

The things I would like to do in order of importance is

A/C

Power disc brakes

Overdrive (4.11 currently)

handeling/fix the 80's rake

Guages (VHX are nice I've used them before)

 

I've been down this road before and things spiral out of control quickly because the Mustang Steve kit I'm looking at doesn't work with the 14 inch wheels and the 18 inch wheels don't work with the 14 inch tires. So now, brakes, rims, tires have to be figured into the budge (which I'm very ok with)

 

I would also like to address the zbar when doing the overdrive swap. Possible TK0 600 and switch it over to cable. I don't know what headers are on the car right now so that may make it tricky, I've looked into hydraulic but It didn't look like the clutch master would work with the MS booster.

 

Also, with the suspension there are a million different ways to go also, It's enough to give a guy a headache.

 

What do you guys think, what would you do if you had 10,000 to spend on these things?

[1969_Mach1 333]

If it's truly a 70 Mach 1 optioned like you mention, in my opinion some of the upgrades with modern parts will hurt the value and desirability of the car. But I'm more of a purest with these cars. In my mind, any upgrades on a car like this are best if they were original options. My thoughts with any muscle car has always been if your plan is to drastically upgrade them with modern drive trans, suspensions, etc. like a retro-mod type of build, then start with more of a base-line lower optioned higher production car. My thoughts seem to differ from most others here so I'm sure others will have different opinions, but I wanted to throw out mine.

Edited December 12, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[danno 128]

I would think the tasks you have could certainly be done with the money you have allocated. I also like the idea of keeping things original, or at least returnable to the original (if later desired). You have the priorities correct, but I might add R & P steering. Go for it, take one task at a time, and have fun with it!

[MikeStang 247]

Go with the Borgeson Steering kit up front, a Coil Over conversion and some good rear leafs with DelAlum bushings and some Cal Tracs, then a set of Koni Shocks.

Classic Auto Air for the AC, then Dynamat the inside.

I used the CSRP Granada Brake upgrade and it works perfectly Power disc / Drum combo and will clear 15" wheels.

[ardenq 14]

If it's truly a 70 Mach 1 optioned like you mention, in my opinion some of the upgrades with modern parts will hurt the value and desirability of the car. But I'm more of a purest with these cars. In my mind, any upgrades on a car like this are best if they were original options. My thoughts with any muscle car has always been if your plan is to drastically upgrade them with modern drive trans, suspensions, etc. like a retro-mod type of build, then start with more of a base-line lower optioned higher production car. My thoughts seem to differ from most others here so I'm sure others will have different opinions, but I wanted to throw out mine.

 

They made A LOT of Mach 1's so I don't think this is very rare optioned car. Now if it had a big block...

 

Either way everything is going to be retained and can be reversed. Also, I can not sell the car (part of the deal) so the value of the car doesn't come into play. I just want to make it safer and more enjoyable to drive.

[Happystang 10]

Nothing wrong with upgrades in the sense of safety and to make it more drivable.

 

All the changes you've listed can be easily reversed. Not that I would reverse them though ;)

[1969_Mach1 333]

They made A LOT of Mach 1's so I don't think this is very rare optioned car. Now if it had a big block...

 

Either way everything is going to be retained and can be reversed. Also, I can not sell the car (part of the deal) so the value of the car doesn't come into play. I just want to make it safer and more enjoyable to drive.

 

I understand, there is certainly nothing wrong with that. I agree its not very rare, but it is a very nice car. Like I mentioned, to me it seems my thoughts differ from most others on this site.

 

I absolutely do not want to influence your build. A lot of people have ideas like yours regarding making it more enjoyable to drive, that's fine. There is nothing wrong with that. For my taste, the car is rare enough to not alter with modern day drive train, braking, and suspension components. I know there were a lot of Mach 1's built. But not nearly as many as fastbacks and coupes. Plus cars like Mach 1's and more so Boss Mustangs were more often originally purchased to be driven hard. So fewer of them survived this long when compared to coupes and fastbacks.

 

I appreciate these cars were designed and built with 45 or so year old technology. Part of their charm and beauty is they drive, ride, steer, and stop like a car built with 45 year old technology and not like a modern new car.

Edited December 12, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[tony 63C 14]

. . . I appreciate these cars were designed and built with 45 or so year old technology. Part of their charm and beauty is they drive, ride, steer, and stop like a car built with 45 year old technology and not like a modern new car.

Bingo. I’m of the exact same mindset. Daily I drive my modern disc brake air conditioned creature comfort loaded vehicle with all modern safety equipment. So getting into my factory stock old school musclecar on sunny weekends is an escape that I would not change for anything.

[Pakrat 1,043]

I feel the same way in that regards, I have 3 newer cars and I like the time capsule feel of my Mustang. It's like driving a giant go cart. I also remember rolling straight thru my first intersection with the culture shock 4 wheel drums, thank god it was a 4 way stop. I have nothing against mods and I think the safety ones are important, the fact that they made high HP cars with manual drums was almost insane back then and certainly not wise now, any car should have as much whoa as it does go. When my car was still a survivor with only 2 prior owners and 42k on the clock I would have never modded it but once it got totaled I decided to make lemonade and save it as a restomod rather than put it to pasture but my changes are mostly cosmetic and all reversible. Aside from the brakes I don't plan to change much else that makes it still feel like it's 45 years old.

[ardenq 14]

Go with the Borgeson Steering kit up front, a Coil Over conversion and some good rear leafs with DelAlum bushings and some Cal Tracs, then a set of Koni Shocks.

Classic Auto Air for the AC, then Dynamat the inside.

I used the CSRP Granada Brake upgrade and it works perfectly Power disc / Drum combo and will clear 15" wheels.

 

I've heard some negative things about the borgeson box not returning to center. Have you used it?

[70fastbak 16]

I say let the mods begin.

There is nothing particularly rare about a mach1.

If you plan on driving it why not be safe while you doing so.

[barnett468 418]

I've heard some negative things about the borgeson box not returning to center. Have you used it?

 

hello ardenq;

 

what exactly are your questions?

 

power steering was not on your list, are you going to add it?

 

what size are your wheels?

 

here's some disc brake kits.

 

http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincatalog_frameset010.html

 

 

the borgensen does not automatically return to center so you need to get used to it . . some people hate it because of that . . you can get some "automatic" return to center if you increase your caster to around 4 degrees.

 

suspension is EASY . . the flatter and better your car turns/corners, the stiffer your suspension will be so how stiff can you stand it and how hard do you plan to corner it?

 

how much money do you have for it?

 

buy an ac unit from vintage air . . it comes with vents for the lower dash . . if you do not have vents in your lower dash and do not want to cut holes in it then you can buy sleek looking vents that mount under the dash like the 66 unit uses . . you can use the dorky looking round ones or two of the sleek looking rectangular center under dash ones . . just put one on both sides . . if you want to keep an original dash pad look you can even buy an original center dash vent and use that one instead of theirs . . you just need to make an adapter to connect the hoses.

 

the ac box takes up some foot space in the passenger side.

 

http://www.vintageair.com/2014catalog/Pages%20from%202014%20VintageAir%20Cat%20rev%208-15%2033.pdf

 

.

Edited December 12, 2014 by barnett468

[DarkBuddha 107]

What's really sad is that $10k doesn't go as far as we'd all like to think. For example, an overdrive conversion with a new transmission and all the little stuff can add up to $3k very quickly. Another $2k (conservatively) on brakes and wheels and tires, and we're already half way done. Drop another $900 on a Borgeson conversion and $4100 on RideTech's Stage 2 coilover setup, and you're done. No a/c, no gauges, no engine upgrades, no interior upgrades, no chassis upgrades. So even with a seemingly significant budget to play with, judicious choices must be made. Stick to your list and priorities.

 

For a/c, price out both Classic Auto Air and Vintage Air.

 

For power disc brakes, best budget "big" power disc setup would be Mustang Steve brackets & booster, late model GT fronts and rears.

 

For overdrive, it ain't gonna be cheap if you're buying a new transmission. Maybe you can find one used?

 

For the handling and stance, there are plenty of budget options way before coilovers and bags. But rather than spend money twice to do the same thing, shop carefully and you might find a decent setup and still stay on budget. As for which one, it really is budget dependent I think. Plus, if you're looking to upgrade the steering, that extra cost could put a major dent in the available budget for this upgrade. Based on budget and performance, my choices would be either Maier Motorsports or Ridetech.

 

For guages, VHX are nice, but pricey. If you could luck into a nice Autometer or similar gauge set for cheap, you might consider buying a 6 gauge pod from Year One and fill it instead. But it would have to be a really really good deal on the gauges since the pod is like $160.

[DarkBuddha 107]

BTW, a quick survey of eBay for "6 gauge set" revealed a ton of very reasonably priced sets, though most of the names aren't brands I recognize. I did find a VDO set for under $300 shipped including senders. So combined with the Year One bezel ($150 shipped right now), you could have a nice looking gauge setup for under $500, which ain't bad.

 

With regard to suspension, I think that is one of the places that it's worthwhile to really spend a bit of money and do it once, do it right, even if it means skipping on the high end gauges or overdrive conversion. You could save on the OD conversion by just changing the rear gears to something more street friendly, like 3.25s or similar, which shouldn't cost more than $350.

[Happystang 10]

 

I appreciate these cars were designed and built with 45 or so year old technology. Part of their charm and beauty is they drive, ride, steer, and stop like a car built with 45 year old technology and not like a modern new car.

 

I agree, I love the these cars for the same reason.

 

However, when it comes to safety items, I don't think one should be concerned about hurting value. 3 point belts, disc brakes etc..

[1969_Mach1 333]

I agree, I love the these cars for the same reason.

 

However, when it comes to safety items, I don't think one should be concerned about hurting value. 3 point belts, disc brakes etc..

 

Good point Happystang.

[ardenq 14]

hello ardenq;

 

what exactly are your questions?

 

power steering was not on your list, are you going to add it?

 

what size are your wheels?

 

 

suspension is EASY . .

 

how much money do you have for it?

 

 

.

 

The car has leaky power steering currently, I've read about increasing caster with that box which made me look at kits with upper arms with built in caster like the cpp mini subframe kit or tcp.

 

Currently the car has 14 inch wheels, I as looking at the modern wheel choices for 94-04 mustangs from American muscle. I really like what 70fastbak did with his car.

 

Another issue with the suspension is it has a really nice 3 inch over axle exhaust I would like to keep which makes bolting a rear subframe in difficult I think.

[ardenq 14]

What's really sad is that $10k doesn't go as far as we'd all like to think.

.

 

I've found that out the hard way when you're putting together a plan.

 

Unfortunately there isn't going to be saving to do more later, the boss granted a one time concession that I'm going to stick to.

 

I looked at the guages and most of the six guage sets aren't the right size for the year one insert. I would need 5 inch main guages and the kits were 3 3/8 inch. Piecing it together with a five inch tach and speedo I was over the vhx set. If you do run across one with five inch main guages pm me the link because I'm going to have to make every buck count.

 

I didn't expect to spend fourth percent of the budget on but I'm open to it because of I know how important it is.

One thing I considered is bolting in the aje k member, it uses sn95 suspension and brakes and a fox rack that would hit three categories.

 

I'm also open to keeping the rear drums to save money.

 

So far I've committed approximately 1600 to air conditioning and pulleys/freon (otherwise the wife will never ride in the summer time with me).

 

That leaves 8400 left

 

I'm guessing the trans will run 3500 which leaves 4900 for brakes and suspension/wheels tires.

 

Darkbudda, you and I are both believers in doing it right the first time. I'm just not sure which way to go from there?

[SM69Mach 68]

Sounds like a good plan.

 

I have done all of the upgrades you plan to do on my MACH and could not be happier with the car. I found a deal for the Vintage Air Kit, upgraded to coil over suspension with Street or Track set up, and got a unisteer PS set up from him at the same time. I did do some additional upgrades that weren't necessary, but I did them anyway, New steering column, new pulley set up etc. I also swapped from a C6 to TKO 600. My expense was a bit more going from auto to 5 speed, but well worth the costs.

 

One option to help keep the costs lower is you can pick up a set of 17 or 18 in wheels that fit the late model mustangs for fairly good prices. You may have to run a spacer up front for it to work, but it could help with the costs.

 

Good luck with all the mods. Should be a nice set up when all said and done!

[DarkBuddha 107]

I was thinking about your choices for suspension, and it would really help to know how you plan to use the car and what your goals are for stance. You may not *need* a coilover setup and may be able to get everything you'd need from upgrading the stock system, which could save you A LOT, giving your more coin for other upgrades elsewhere.

 

Another thought I had, one of my biggest recommendations for improving the way the car feels is also fairly cheap: subframe connectors. Even if you pay someone else to do the welding and install, it shouldn't cost more than $250 or so. It really changes how the chassis feels.

[barnett468 418]

.

The car has leaky power steering currently...

just fix it.

 

 

 

Another issue with the suspension is it has a really nice 3 inch over axle exhaust I would like to keep which makes bolting a rear subframe in difficult I think.

there is no such thing as a removable rear subframe on a mustang . . for suspension upgrades on the rear, just install stiffer springs . . to lower it use lowering blocks . . to lower it and make it stiffer, just buy stiffer springs with a reverse eyelet on the rear of the spring.

.

Edited December 13, 2014 by barnett468

[barnett468 418]

Unfortunately there isn't going to be saving to do more later, the boss granted a one time concession that I'm going to stick to. I'm going to have to make every buck count.

 

I looked at the guages and most of the six guage sets aren't the right size for the year one insert. I didn't expect to spend fourth percent of the budget on but I'm open to it because of I know how important it is.

you do not "need" gauges other than possibly a better water temp gauge . . it ran just fine for 45 years without them, so put them at the bottom of the list because they will not make your steering or suspension any better or make it any colder inside.

 

 

 

One thing I considered is bolting in the aje k member, it uses sn95 suspension and brakes and a fox rack that would hit three categories.

a rack is a complete and total waste of money . . your car will NOT work one bit better with one and the coil over shocks do nothing other than make your ride height adjustable.

 

 

 

I'm also open to keeping the rear drums to save money.

spend the gauge money on rear discs if you want but they really are unnecessary unless you are racing.

 

 

 

So far I've committed approximately 1600 to air conditioning and pulleys/freon (otherwise the wife will never ride in the summer time with me).

keep in mind that it might cost around $100.00 or more to charge it.

 

 

 

That leaves 8400 left. I'm guessing the trans will run 3500 which leaves 4900 for brakes and suspension/wheels tires.

sell all your 4 speed stuff for around $800.00 . . if you have a 69 with the original shifter it is worth maybe $600.00 by itself.

 

decent trannies for moderate hp $2200.00 . . flex plate $60.00 . . torque converter $300.00 . . mounts $130.00 . . shifter . . it depends.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/automatic-transmissions/bellhousing-bolt-pattern/ford/transmission-type/aod?N=4294923966%2B4294924303%2B4294945314&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&tw=transmission&sw=Automatic%20Transmissions

 

 

 

I'm just not sure which way to go from there?

easy, list what you "need" first like ac . . then you "need" to fix your power steering leak because that is a safety and mess issue . . then you "need" to replace any worn suspension parts.

 

you do not "need" front disc brakes but it is a safety issue if you drive it hard or they get wet so you get front discs. check out the link below and willwood and ssbc

 

http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincatalog_frameset010.html

 

 

if your rear brakes are 1 3/4", you can but 2" wide kits which will make a noticeable improvement and are cheaper and easier to install than discs . . see the link below . . the link above may have them also.

 

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/SubCat.asp?CatKey=Cougar&SubCategory=Brake+Drums%2FDrum+Kits%2FHardware&category=Wheels+%26+Brakes&KeyWords=CMQ11

 

if you jamb on the brakes, it is best to have wider tires than stock and also higher traction tires so you "should" buy these if you don't have them.

 

you do not "need" 15" rims but it will handle better with lower profile tires so this can fall under the "safety" category.

 

you do not "need" better suspension but if your front end needs repair you might as well replace bad parts with better ones . . besides rear springs are $180.00, front lowering springs $120.00 . . new scott drake perches $100.00 a pair . . front sway bar with black urethane bushings $140.00 . . total control front control bushings $65.00 . . white kyb shocks $160.00 . . that's only $765 to make it far better than it is now . . if you want it to turn quick you can lower the front a arm like a shelby for free . . the total control arms lower it and are fully adjustable and will improve handling but they are not cheap and really are overkill for a street car that is not driven really hard . . decent tires are around $600 plus mounting and balancing.

 

RIMS - You can buy several styles from rev wheel fairly cheap. . they are chinese but are very nice and just fine for cruising and mild performance driving.

 

 

 

Darkbudda, you and I are both believers in doing it right the first time.

so am i and many others here. Edited December 14, 2014 by barnett468

[1969_Mach1 333]

For the most part I agree with barnett468's suggestions. Be realistic with how often and how hard you plan to drive the car. Rebuild and replace what is worn out and make improvements in the process. Chances are good you don't need coil over front suspension, rack and pinion steering, and certainly not a completely new instrument panel set up. You can build it right the first time without all that stuff. I guess if you want an overdrive, a different trans. But a Ford toploader 4sp is highly sought after, not easy to find, and as tough as they come. Your budget will go a lot further without that stuff.

 

You have a desirable highly optioned car to start with. Optioned like yours may be more rare than you are aware of. Simply because they typically were driven so hard they would not have survived this long. Besides, if you spend all your budget now how do you plan to make any new repairs or upgrades later.

[RPM 1,190]

Lots of good info here. There are plenty of used upgrade aftermarket parts for our cars. If were you I'd:

-leave the 4sd and put in 3.25 or 3.00:1 gears. I would not use a major portion of the cash on a different trans.

-do the MustangSteve 13" front disc and ad a power booster, new pedal. 94-04 Cobra calipers are still available,

-get some 17x8 94-04 used Mustang wheels and tires to clear the bigger brakes,

-redo the front suspension with Opentracker products,

-lower the rear with reversed eye springs or dearched springs. I'd stay away from lowering blocks over 1" if you do any spirited driving.

-get quality shocks like Bilstein,

-replace the bad gauges. Get creative here, A 5" quad gauge, a two pod gauge in the console ash tray and such.

-one of the major aftermarket a/c units. But then, w/o a/c your wife won't want to ride with you. Could be a good thing :)

 

So what happens down the road when parts go bad and the 10k is gone? Do you get to do repairs? You're going to have to do some thinking on what you need to replace (new or used) and what you want to replace. Good luck.

 

Bob

[1969_Mach1 333]

I agree on leaving the 4sp. trans and changing the gears in the rear end. Check to see if its a close ratio or wide ratio 4sp. I only mention this because 1st gear is pretty tall in the close ratio 4sp. toploader. So if its a close ratio trans I wouldn't go much lower than a 3.50:1 rear axle ratio.

Edited December 14, 2014 by 1969_Mach1