1969 with factory air, Fix it or go with aftermarket kit???

[sizemoremk 12]

Time to look at A/C in the wifes 69 coupe with EFI/AOD swap.

 

Car has factory air, but all kinds of problems with the A/C and such.

 

At least 2 of the vacuum pods don't hold vacuum. One of the A/C switches is broken in the controls, and I have no confidence that the vacuum hoses are routed correctly.

 

Was going to put it off till after other tasks, but had to replace heater core.

 

The heater box has tons of fiberglass repair and pretty much had to glue it together with automotive goop when replacing the heater core...

 

I have new condenser and dryer, new evaporator and that's about it. I actually have the York compressor and bracketry still, but my understanding is that I'm better off not using the York compressor and upgrading to the sanden style compressor.

 

So wondering if I am better off tossing the whole system and going with "the perfect fit" from Classic Auto Air or something similar?

 

Anyone use one of those newer complete systems?

[Rsanter 152]

Still seems like it would be easier to get your setup back to right than to pull it all out and go again.

If you have any care for originality and future stock value then for sure keep your system.

If you are strictly hot rod then it doesn't matter.

 

The sanden swap is a good one and does not effect future originality as long as you keep the old parts. If you don't need the added HP then there is nothing wrong with the stock compressor

 

Bob

[barnett468 418]

i would never dump an orig ac for an aftermarket one . . the vacuum pods are avail for around 20.00 each . . drake has an easy to follow hose routing and wiring diagram . . you can buy every orig ac piece from classic air or vintage air in florida, i forgot which one . . use the sanden compressoror 5.0 compressor.

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Edited December 10, 2014 by barnett468

[sizemoremk 12]

Well I can't find the vacuum pods for less than $50 each NOS on ebay, the scott drake ones are about $65-$70 and the two port one looks like $85-90)..

 

If you have a source, please let me know.

 

Thanks for the input, I'll see about the scott drake diagrams.

 

Thanks!

[barnett468 418]

Well I can't find the vacuum pods for less than $50 each NOS on ebay, the scott drake ones are about $65-$70 and the two port one looks like $85-90)..

 

If you have a source, please let me know.

 

Thanks for the input, I'll see about the scott drake diagrams.

 

Thanks!

 

holy c__p, that's nuts for drake ones, the nos for 50.00 isn't bad . . try "Romie" at the link below . . tell him the ferrett sent you . . if they can be had for less he will know.

 

http://mustangshopofconcord.com/

 

also, there is a short plastic arm on the upper passenger side of the center vent that breaks . . if you remove your dsash pad its all easy to get to.

.

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Edited December 11, 2014 by barnett468

[miketyler 15]

Agree with Barnett - the Sanden upgrade is easy and you can buy a Tru-Flow condenser to fit your needs that's more efficient with R134a. As for vacuum motors I have an entire AC box with pods I will sell you. Not NOS but they are all working

[1969_Mach1 333]

If the car had factory A/C I vote to rebuild, restore, repair the original equipment. Particularly the under dash equipment. A more efficient Sanden compressor is fine. Be sure to save any original removed parts.

[MikeStang 247]

Man I sold my entire ac kit Factory used stuff for like 300 bucks a while back and all the pods worked fine

[danno 128]

I agee with the others! Stay with the factory setup. The only downside is a factory setup will need to be filled with 134A freon. It does not get quite as cold as the R12 did originally. So on a really hot day with it running full blast, you might not be able to keep it a cool inside.

[Flanders 46]

are there good rebuild kits available for factory A/C units? (ie. DIY job?)

[barnett468 418]

are there good rebuild kits available for factory A/C units? (ie. DIY job?)

 

there is no rebuild kit just buy what you need . . a rebuilt compressor with a warranty is around $120.00 . . if it does not say r134 on it you can buy an r134 compatible seal kit for $15.00 or as mentioned, but a rotary kit from classic air in florida

 

use green ac o rings for r134.

 

i think someone mentioned an r134 condenser . . i think they make one that fits but you can use your orig if its good . . the r134 ones cool the freon slightly better.

Edited December 15, 2014 by barnett468

[indianfiremach 170]

I rebuilt my original AC box in my '69 Mustang Mach 1 a few years ago, it worked ok with the sanden conversion. I have a '70 Corvette now that I put the vintage air gen iv kit in. It works amazing and I had it installed in just a few hours with almost no modifications to the car. When I pulled the AC box from my '70 Mach 1, I sold it on the forums here because I plan to put vintage air in my '70. The car is not "strictly hot rod" and looks mostly stock. Unless you really know what you're looking at, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It uses the stock controls / vents. And on a hot/cold day, you'll be glad you have it. Just wanted to give a different opinion. I also know a dealer that sells it for a pretty fair price (less than you can get it for on eBay), pm me if you want his contact info.

[indianfiremach 170]

I rebuilt my original AC box in my '69 Mustang Mach 1 a few years ago, it worked ok with the sanden conversion. I have a '70 Corvette now that I put the vintage air gen iv kit in. It works amazing and I had it installed in just a few hours with almost no modifications to the car. When I pulled the AC box from my '70 Mach 1, I sold it on the forums here because I plan to put vintage air in my '70. The car is not "strictly hot rod" and looks mostly stock. Unless you really know what you're looking at, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It uses the stock controls / vents. And on a hot/cold day, you'll be glad you have it. Just wanted to give a different opinion. I also know a dealer that sells it for a pretty fair price (less than you can get it for on eBay), pm me if you want his contact info.

[TeamPontiac79 12]

 

there is no rebuild kit just buy what you need . . a rebuilt compressor with a warranty is around $120.00 . . if it does not say r134 on it you can buy an r134 compatible seal kit for $15.00 or as mentioned, but a rotary kit from classic air in florida

 

use green ac o rings for r134.

 

i think someone mentioned an r134 condenser . . i think they make one that fits but you can use your orig if its good . . the r134 ones cool the freon slightly better.

Where can a rebuilt compressor be had for around $120? I've checked the local parts palaces, and they seem to run around $100 more.

[miketyler 15]

Here's a polished unit for $160

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Polished-Aluminum-Sanden-508-AC-12V-Air-Compressor-V-Belt-Pulley-2-Groove-/351291701325?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51ca9df84d&vxp=mtr

[TeamPontiac79 12]

I think I'm leaning more towards keeping the factory york compressor. Mine still spins, but there was corrosion inside the fittings when I got the car, and the condenser had fully corroded, so I'm not confident it's any good. I am unsure whether to convert to 134a though. I still have some r12; probably more than enough to fill the system twice, but I really don't want to waste it on a questionable compressor. Everything else is new or reconditioned already. Entire hvac box has been rebuilt, all vacuum hoses and switch replaced with correct color coded silicone stuff from a 70s maverick. Last piece of the puzzle is the compressor. It's been a multi-year project of throwing time and money at it.

[Lil John SVT 27]

I'm in the same situation. The PO hacked the factory lines up. There's hose clamps holding lines together. Most of the factory vaccum hoses are gone. I'd love to keep the a/c but it'll be a nightmare trying to sort it out. Plus they decided to do a serpentine belt set up on the car. Not sure where the compressor came from. It's not locked up. But the set up looks thrown together. Not sure which way to go with it. I hate when people hack up cars and your left with trying to figure it out.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I think I'm leaning more towards keeping the factory york compressor. Mine still spins, but there was corrosion inside the fittings when I got the car, and the condenser had fully corroded, so I'm not confident it's any good. I am unsure whether to convert to 134a though. I still have some r12; probably more than enough to fill the system twice, but I really don't want to waste it on a questionable compressor. Everything else is new or reconditioned already. Entire hvac box has been rebuilt, all vacuum hoses and switch replaced with correct color coded silicone stuff from a 70s maverick. Last piece of the puzzle is the compressor. It's been a multi-year project of throwing time and money at it.

If you stick with a York compressor, I would use the R12 you still have.  If you want to use R134a, I would consider a different compressor, Sanden maybe.  I've seen kits in the NPD catalog that reuse your original under dash factory A/C components.  But that would be much more expensive than buying a rebuilt York compressor.  Since R134a systems use more efficient condensers and evaporators, if you need any of those components get something compatible with R134a at least for future if you use the R12 at this time.

 

It's been my experience an R12 system converted to R134a while maintaining the R12 condenser and evaporator doesn't work as well.  I have also seen several GM R4 compressors originally for R12 on systems converted to R134a not last very long.  Not because of an oil compatibility issue but I think because R134a operates at higher pressures.

 

Lastly, since the molecules for R134a are much smaller than that of R12, the hose fittings on older R12 systems do not seal as well with R134a.  Sometimes, small leaks at fittings that would drain a system in a year cannot be stopped.  Fittings on R134a systems typically have 3 or 4 o-rings to form a seal as opposed to one o-ring or a flare on an R12 system. 

 

Whatever way you go, remember to flush any old lines and components before assembling, and evacuate the system for about 30 minutes to remove any moisture before charging.

 

For what it's worth, that's my 2 cents.

[sizemoremk 12]

I'm back messing with the car some more now, curious if anyone else has anything else to add.

 

I am still on the fence about swapping to the aftermarket system, but leaning towards fixing the factory setup..

 

This is not a show car, it will be closer to a fair weather daily driver when I am done.  My wife drove the car about daily a few years ago before I decided to swap to EFI and AOD transmission.  For this reason I wonder if the way to go is the aftermarket system using 134.

 

I'm probably a ways off from the A/C work anyways, she would rather deal without A/C for a summer or two and have some bodywork and paint done first.

 

I have the dash out now replacing the heater core, it has a few year old but never unsealed evaporator (with the manufacturers caps still in place).  I also have a new (few year old) condenser and dryer with caps still in place.  I also have a York compressor I think can rebuilt, and might have a line on some R12 also.  Would need to order new hoses, or have some new A/C hoses made. 

 

On the compressor, if I went with the newer sanden compressor and converted to 134, would it really work well with the factory style condenser/dryer/hoses? 

 

For the time being, I'm kinda thinking of replacing the vacuum pods and doing all of the dash work, so I do not have to pull it all out again with newer paint and interior work done.  Then I can redo the rest of the factory system later.

 

What I am most concerned about is the routing of the vacuum lines in the dash, as I do not trust any of it currently, several were plugged or disconnected.  I have ordered one vacuum pod to make sure the one I selected fits, then I can order some more if that one works out.

 

I would need the heat and defrost to work until I go back with the rest of the underhood A/C stuff.

 

Has anyone used the CJ Pony or Scott drake vacuum kits for themselves?  Were good vacuum diagrams included?

 

Thanks!

[machm1970 180]

I'm in the process of it now, buy the vacuum diagram for $5, much easier to read.

[TeamPontiac79 12]

Sizemoremk, for what it is worth, if you are able to find a mid 70s maverick, you may find your gold mine of vacuum bits for your car very cheaply. I found a 75 or 76 in a junk yard, and was abke to salvage the switch and silicone hoses which were properly color coded, only a bit longer (that's an easy problem to fix!). I didn't/don't have actuator issues, but you may be able to use them as well. In any case, I used those slightly newer and way higher quality parts, and I am very happy with that part of the system. Only mod I needed was to extend a wire to use the plastic vacuum switch. Again, an easy problem to solve. Didn't even cut the factory wire. I think I paid $5 for everything. Could maybe scour ebay as well?

[danno 128]

I will have to look, I have the Ford shop manual, and I think it has a good vacuum diagram in it.  If it does, I can post it here.

 

One thing you should definately check on the heater box is the drain plug. Those often crack at the base, or get plugged.  You should be able to put a low stream of water into you heater box, and it should not get your carpet wet. It better all go  out the drip hole.  Fixing a problem with this later is a large problem, fixing it now is easy.

 

Another suggestion is to consider repacing the heater core.  If it is original, you have the potential for a leak. Replace it now to be safe.

[danno 128]

I am trying to attach a diagramMustang AC vacuum lines .pdf

Mustang AC controls diagram.pdf

[sizemoremk 12]

Thanks danno, I really appreciate it!

 

I have a couple of questions on this diagram.

 

If you look at the blue line, it isn't clear where it is going, do you see anymore detail on what the blue line is doing? 

 

Also, I notice what looks like an "X" marked on the page, where it looks like a "correction" was written on the diagram saying to connect the purple to the black tee, rather than the that purple to the brown tee?

Am I seeing that right?  Any idea what that is about?

 

Maybe between the pics I took before disassembly and this diagram I'll be set!

 

Thanks!