Shelby drop

[podiver 10]

With new tubular upper/lower control arms and stock springs would you do the drop anyway? Do the new LCA/UCA (Summit) have the change already built in?

[RPM 1,190]

Do the drop. No control arms will give you the drop because it's the pivot point which changes for the better geometry. TCP does make a pivot arm which includes the drop.

 

Bob

[Hoover 12]

I have these controls with the drop built in.

http://www.ultrarev.com/94210-spc.html

[RPM 1,190]

Hmm...I didn't know anyone else was making those. I'm no engineer but I'd be concerned about the leverage with the mounting bolts and pivot being on different planes. I'd keep an eye on the mounting holes and bolts over time as the repetition forces can add up.

 

Bob

[1969_Mach1 333]

I am a Mechanical Engineer and I agree with RPM. Moving the the mounting holes centerline and shaft centerline to different planes just added Torque (or Moments) on the mounting bolts and the shock tower in the mounting bolt area that didn't exist before. It may be strong enough, but not a good design idea.

[Rsanter 152]

I have though the same thing when I first was those, however it is not a problem.

The force of the spring is downward on the arm which will pivot that bracket to the shock tower. Yes it will put a little more tension force on the bolts but that is where the bolts are the strongest. Also the drop in those brackets is not much so the moment arm is small.

Because the bracket will be bolted flat to the tower there will be no bending force applied to the bolt which is where the problem would start.

 

I have seen those arms in person at sema. They look nice but to me they seem a little expensive for their simplicity.

However I do like the sealed bearings they are using at the pivot point

 

Bob

[1969_Mach1 333]

That's correct, because of the geometry, the moments do not apply a bending force to the bolts. However, it will add tension to the bolts and a local bending force to the shock tower in that area. Like you mentioned the downward spring force will help to counter act it. But the design has added tensile forces to the bolts and some local bending in the shock tower that previously didn't exist. But, like I mentioned in my previous post, it may be strong enough.

[jmlay 80]

TCP has been building an upper with dropped mounting points for quite a while.:

 

http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/upper.html

[barnett468 418]

With new tubular upper/lower control arms and stock springs would you do the drop anyway? Do the new LCA/UCA (Summit) have the change already built in?

 

well exactly how will you be driving the car?

 

unless you are driving it at least moderately hard there is no point to dropping it . . there are thousands of cars on the road with minor suspension upgrades that handle decent without the drop.

.

[maxum96 32]

well exactly how will you be driving the car?

 

unless you are driving it at least moderately hard there is no point to dropping it . . there are thousands of cars on the road with minor suspension upgrades that handle decent without the drop.

.

 

 

If you're talking about the Arning modification, aka "Shelby drop", you're dead wrong. Watch this video and you'll see why it's a good modification regardless of your driving style. Go to the 3:26 mark

 

[barnett468 418]

.

If you're talking about the Arning modification, aka "Shelby drop", you're dead wrong.

 

i am not dead wrong, and in fact, i am actually quite alive and well after driving over 1,000 different pre 74 mustangs in the last 42 years that did NOT have the shelby drop, lol . . probably around 90% of the people on every mustang forum DO NOT have the shelby drop and they all still seem to be alive and well.

 

ford made around 8 million mustangs from 64 thru 73 and i have never seen any of them fly off the side of the road all by themselves . . if there was a serious design flaw in the orig suspension, there would have been a zillion accidents attributed to it and subsequent lawsuits and recalls . . i don't seem to remember any.

 

if someone goes out and drives a nearly stock suspension mustang hard on a curvy mountain road, they will likely go off the edge . . this is because the cars were not designed to be used like this in stock, or near stock form, and also because the driver is an idiot that was driving beyond their ability or they were drunk etc. and should be in jail for doing this on a public highway and endangering other innocent peoples lives.

 

there are two popular and famous roads that i know of out west that stupid people crash on all the time . . there are also stupid spectators that go out and watch these idiots every weekend knowing that at least one of them will probably crash and they can be the first to put it on youtube so they can be popular with their friends, lol.

 

one of these videos shows a spectator filming the cars coming around a famous corner and going out of control and running over some huge bikers bike whom had also stopped to watch the festivities . . the huge biker seemed less than amused . . i laughed so hard watching it that tears were rolling down my face.

 

here's just a few dozen of those videos for your enjoyment . . don't worry, if you finish these there will be plenty moire next week . . i also kinda like the one where the bike crashes then catches on fire.

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mulholland+crash+compilation

 

 

cars that handle good can be very dangerous because they give people a false sense of security and entice/encourage them to drive them harder than their abilities can handle.

 

 

 

...you're dead wrong.

Actually i think these people are the ones that are "dead wrong", however, i don't think they had the shelby drop . . Good handling cars do NOT make their drivers good drivers.

 

"A brutal Ferrari F430 accident happened last night when a Ferrari F430 lost control on the E42 motorway at high speed. The Ferrari slammed into a lamp post, hit the central reservation and split into two pieces up to the cockpit. It’s one of the worst accidents we’ve seen recently and unfortunately, both driver and passenger died."

 

. . . . . . . .

 

 

 

 

. . . . . . . . . . . . This Mustang had the shelby/arning drop.

 

 

. . . . . . . . . .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited November 9, 2014 by barnett468

[DocWok 30]

Yet another over long rant from Barnett468

[maxum96 32]

.

 

 

i am not dead wrong, and in fact, i am actually quite alive and well after driving over 1,000 different pre 74 mustangs in the last 42 years that did NOT have the shelby drop, lol . . probably around 90% of the people on every mustang forum DO NOT have the shelby drop and they all still seem to be alive and well.

 

ford made around 8 million mustangs from 64 thru 73 and i have never seen any of them fly off the side of the road all by themselves . . if there was a serious design flaw in the orig suspension, there would have been a zillion accidents attributed to it and subsequent lawsuits and recalls . . i don't seem to remember any.

 

if someone goes out and drives a nearly stock suspension mustang hard on a curvy mountain road, they will likely go off the edge . . this is because the cars were not designed to be used like this in stock, or near stock form, and also because the driver is an idiot that was driving beyond their ability or they were drunk etc. and should be in jail for doing this on a public highway and endangering other innocent peoples lives.

 

there are two popular and famous roads that i know of out west that stupid people crash on all the time . . there are also stupid spectators that go out and watch these idiots every weekend knowing that at least one of them will probably crash and they can be the first to put it on youtube so they can be popular with their friends, lol.

 

one of these videos shows a spectator filming the cars coming around a famous corner and going out of control and running over some huge bikers bike whom had also stopped to watch the festivities . . the huge biker seemed less than amused . . i laughed so hard watching it that tears were rolling down my face.

 

here's just a few dozen of those videos for your enjoyment . . don't worry, if you finish these there will be plenty moire next week . . i also kinda like the one where the bike crashes then catches on fire.

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mulholland+crash+compilation

 

 

cars that handle good can be very dangerous because they give people a false sense of security and entice/encourage them to drive them harder than their abilities can handle.

 

 

 

 

Actually i think these people are the ones that are "dead wrong", however, i don't think they had the shelby drop . . Good handling cars do NOT make their drivers good drivers.

 

"A brutal Ferrari F430 accident happened last night when a Ferrari F430 lost control on the E42 motorway at high speed. The Ferrari slammed into a lamp post, hit the central reservation and split into two pieces up to the cockpit. It’s one of the worst accidents we’ve seen recently and unfortunately, both driver and passenger died."

 

Do you really read and comprehend what other people post? My first post was in response to this,

 

well exactly how will you be driving the car?

 

unless you are driving it at least moderately hard there is no point to dropping it . . there are thousands of cars on the road with minor suspension upgrades that handle decent without the drop.

.

 

 

In case you need a recap here's what I wrote,

 

If you're talking about the Arning modification, aka "Shelby drop", you're dead wrong. Watch this video and you'll see why it's a good modification regardless of your driving style. Go to the 3:26 mark

 

 

Nothing was mentioned about crashes. You and I both talked talked about quality of handling. Try to stay on topic and not stray.

Edited November 9, 2014 by maxum96

[barnett468 418]

if you are going to do suspension mods or be driving it harder than average you might consider adding the outer shock tower braces shown in this kit . . the inner plates are also helpful but might be a bit overkill for basic steet driving . . the outers are similar to what the boss and 428 cj cars have but they are 1 piece from ford..

 

http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.com/towerkit/

Edited November 9, 2014 by barnett468

[maxum96 32]

Yet another over long rant from Barnett468

 

 

No doubt. I should have known better than to answer him.

[barnett468 418]

P.

Do you really read...

Yes, I actually DO read what EVERYONE posts so I don't end up repeating info that has already been posted because I prefer not to be redundant.

 

 

 

and comprehend what other people post?

My reading comprehension ability is also at least high enough to know that your comment stating "you are dead wrong" is abrasive and unwarranted. All I did was offer my opinion to the op. There are more courteous and professional ways to disagree with it than the one you used.

 

 

 

In case you need a recap here's what I wrote...

Thank you for the offer but I don't.

 

 

 

Try to stay on topic and not stray.

Ok, I'm more than happy to, but are you now referring to the topic of me being "dead wrong" or having questionable reading comprehension abilities or the shelby drop?

 

 

 

FYI - I did put in the time and effort try to view the video, however, unfortunately, I do not have the necessary plug ins to play it so I then tried to view it on my phone and it says the video is unavailable from cell phones.

 

I am well aware of how a car handles with the arning drop because all my 65 and 66 shelby's had it along with a few other non shelby's I have owned or driven . . I have also done this mod at customers requests.

.

Edited November 10, 2014 by barnett468

[barnett468 418]

With new tubular upper/lower control arms and stock springs would you do the drop anyway? Do the new LCA/UCA (Summit) have the change already built in?

Whatever you do, if the arms do not come with, or require, special bolts that are splined or otherwise, I would use grade 8 fine thread bolts.

 

I would also use thick grade 8 flat washers like these along with grade 8 lock washers and nuts.

 

Edited November 10, 2014 by barnett468

[DocWok 30]

Is this guy for real?

[Rsanter 152]

Question...

What does the arming drop do.

Answer....

The stock suspension geometry has push or under steer built into the design. 99% of the cars out there do.

Why? Because under steer makes the typical driver back off when the car starts to push.

The arning drop will reduce that and make the car a little more neutral. This can make average drivers think they are better than they are and make good drivers be able to drive their car a little faster through a corner.

 

Based on that, how you want to drive the car, and how good of a driver you are......do you need the drop?

 

Bob

[Hoover 12]

For what it's worth, I purchased the SPC control arms from EBay for $205 or so. The steel plate is 5/16ths thick. The ball joint is a 4 bolt available most anywhere. The part that bolts to the shock tower is over an inch thick, and the bolts used are metric 10.9 grade. So it is not a piece of crap.

Eilbrach uses the same control arm, as SPC packages it for them.

 

A question was asked, and I provided a link to them. I have no interest or money invested in the company, just a guy trying to update the suspension, and pass the info on to the members here. Guess some don't want to hear it, or have their minds already made up.

 

The ball joint has 3 mounting positions on the plate, 0 camber, -1 camber, and -2 camber. The arm is offset for 2 degrees of caster. Just flip the other arm over for right hand installation. A big L and a big R are embossed into the arm.

 

By the time trying to mickey mouse a set of control arms from some self professed expert, you are spending $410.00 for a quality set.

 

No cutting, no drilling, and no complicated instructions, think that the product speaks for itself.:rockon:

 

By the way, I talked to the chief engineer who designed these control arms, he has 30+ years of aviation engineering and stress analysis background. He has credentials, and that is why I purchased this brand, which has been in business 42 + years, American designed and American made. Okay back to the rant session.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Hoover
adding info

[Rip Rock 13]

I had the tcp front end, on mine with the shelby drop, and it made one hell of a difference over the stock stuff. My stock stuff was not wore out either. I say go for it.

[barnett468 418]

after reading all the posts i didnt see any mention of addding a shelby/export brace and ralye bar . . you may have thought of this but in case not if you plan to do any type of spirited driving i would add both of these items . . npd makes a nice deep well unit.

[970fizz 19]

My next project on my 70 mustang is to lower the car, and improve the Suspension and handling of my car. It's just a weekend driver street car, but if I can get it to handle better I would like to take it to a few track days as we'll.

 

I'm not going to get super crazy and buy coilovers or a expensive 3 link rear end, but I would like to get the most I can out of a basic coil spring in the front and leaf in back. I'm also looking for a good amount of drop. 2 1/2-3 in front and 2-2 1/2 out back. So far I bought grab a track 620's with a 1 inch drop for the front and was thinking of doing the negative wedge kit as we'll. and do a reverse eye 4-5 leaf out back, maybe a 1 inch block as we'll. I'm also thinking about changing the front sway bar out to one of the mustang plus bigger sway bars and adding a rear sway bar.

 

Who make the best negative wedge kit? Or should I stick with the 1 Shelby drip? Anything else that anyone suggest I do to the suspension?

 

Any info or suggestion will be appreciated.

Edited November 10, 2014 by 970fizz

[1969_Mach1 333]

The reverse eye might be too far with the front only lowered 1 inch. I had to exchange my 5 leaf reverse-eye springs for 5 leaf mid-eye springs for that reason. Mustangs Plus was good at exchanging the leaf springs. For reference, in the front I have the old Grab-a-Track 720 1 inch drop coil springs (now discontinued) and lowered the upper control arms 1 inch. I want to add a negative wedge kit, but they are pricey for what you get.

[barnett468 418]

My next project on my 70 mustang is to lower the car, and improve the Suspension and handling of my car. It's just a weekend driver street car, but if I can get it to handle better I would like to take it to a few track days as we'll.

 

I'm not going to get super crazy and buy coilovers or a expensive 3 link rear end, but I would like to get the most I can out of a basic coil spring in the front and leaf in back. I'm also looking for a good amount of drop. 2 1/2-3 in front and 2-2 1/2 out back. So far I bought grab a track 620's with a 1 inch drop for the front and was thinking of doing the negative wedge kit as we'll. and do a reverse eye 4-5 leaf out back, maybe a 1 inch block as we'll. I'm also thinking about changing the front sway bar out to one of the mustang plus bigger sway bars and adding a rear sway bar.

 

Who make the best negative wedge kit? Or should I stick with the 1 Shelby drip? Anything else that anyone suggest I do to the suspension?

 

Any info or suggestion will be appreciated.

 

hello;

 

you would get more replies if you started your own thread because more people will see it there . . if you drive half way aggressive you will likely bottom out with the 620 if you lower it that much but it would be ok for general cruising for sure . . also anything more than 620 can feel pretty harsh over bumps but if you have the 620 i would try them and do the shelby drop first because it will lower the front slightly.

.

Edited November 10, 2014 by barnett468