New Radiator Purchase ?

[RCE1313 23]

I need some help or advice on purchasing a new radiator and fan/s. I've got a 408w and I plan on running A/C. I've been researching online and have found some good reviews on Griffin radiators. I was curious what other people are running and if there is brands to stay away from or websites with good deals and combos. Any help would be appreciated.

[barnett468 418]

these guys make the race pro rads for northern . . they alsp have spal fan kits . . the ford contour and lincoln and taurus fans are killer and dirt cheap at around 150.00 but need a dcc controller . . look at coolcraft.com also.

 

http://stores.ebay.com/universalpartsinc/UNIVERSAL-ALUMINUM-RADIATORS-/_i.html?_fsub=10

 

 

http://stores.ebay.com/UNIVERSAL-PARTS-INC/RADIATOR-SHROUD-AND-FAN-KITS-/_i.html?_fsub=18&_sid=44193929&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

 

 

there aint no better deal on us made rads than the ebay ones.

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[MikeStang 247]

RCE I used a 4 core aluminum from Ledfoot racing, its a champion radiator and its keeping my 408 with AC cool.

Im also using a dual fan from a 2000 model Cougar controlled by a cheap little thermo switch and its working great...

[barnett468 418]

the champion rads are made in china and the tubes hold 25% less water than a us made tube so if you have a car that is bored .040" and live where it gets hot, you need to calculate for the smaller tubes when selecting a size.

 

also, all the chinese fans flow far less than they claim.

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[1969_Mach1 333]

I use the largest radiator Griffin offers on a mild 10.7:1 351W. I am using a high flow water pump with a high flow 160 degree thermostat, and a 6 blade 17" Derale fan (not electric) with original fan shroud. The combination works okay, the motor runs about 180 deg in mild 85 deg ambient temps. I wanted to post this because even though it works okay for my situation I don't know it will cool a 408 CID Windsor with or without A/C. That may be tough, the small engine compartment traps in a lot of heat, plus, I'm thinking also creates air flow issues through the radiator.

[barnett468 418]

if your engine is .040" and your cylinders are not eaten away from the inside and you do not have over 10:1 compression, any us made 24" wide rad with 2 rows of 2 - 2 1/4" tubes with a taurus or lincoln MK VII or VIII fan, will cool a non ac 408 without a/c and possibly one with ac . . if ot is .030 over, then it should be fine . . if you have 600 hp, then it might not and you can buy a trippple pass rad.

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[barnett468 418]

I use the largest radiator Griffin offers on a mild 10.7:1 351W. I am using a high flow water pump with a high flow 160 degree thermostat, and a 6 blade 17" Derale fan (not electric) with original fan shroud. The combination works okay, the motor runs about 180 deg in mild 85 deg ambient temps. I wanted to post this because even though it works okay for my situation I don't know it will cool a 408 CID Windsor with or without A/C. That may be tough, the small engine compartment traps in a lot of heat, plus, I'm thinking also creates air flow issues through the radiator.

 

unless you have a need for the 160 t stat you should run a 180 at least . . a good system will never, ever, run more than 7 degrees over the t stat rating.

 

if you have 50/50 anti freeze, you can reduce water temp by reducing the antifreeze to 10 - 15%.

 

in case you were not aware, you could run a spark plug that is 1 step colder than stock also.

 

yiu can reduce engine compartment heat by a lot by wrapping your headers with header wrap . . this will also lower the engine intake air temp which will also reduce temps.

 

if you run hoses to your core support it will get the inlet air away from the engine intake and reduce engine temp.

 

if your timing is a bit far from ideal for your engine, it can easily run screamin hot and turn your headers cherry red which can even start your plug wires on fire, lol.

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Edited November 6, 2014 by barnett468

[LindenBruce 27]

I would go with Griffin if you want aluminum OR US Radiator if you want copper/brass. US Radiator is the only company I can find making copper/brass radiators here in the good old USA.

 

In either case get the high efficiency core. It should serve you well. Both brands will be expensive. But you get what you pay for also. What's cheaper? Saving a few hundred bucks on a rad or rebuilding an engine?

 

Of the other brands of aluminum rads it seems people are 50/50 on whether or not they like them or if they fit. Kind of a crap shoot if you ask me. B.

[barnett468 418]

us rad/cool craft makes an oem style in aluminum . . look under "mach 1".

 

http://www.coolcraft.com/

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[1969_Mach1 333]

unless you have a need for the 160 t stat you should run a 180 at least . . a good system will never, ever, run more than 7 degrees over the t stat rating.

 

if you have 50/50 anti freeze, you can reduce water temp by reducing the antifreeze to 10 - 15%.

 

in case you were not aware, you could run a spark plug that is 1 step colder than stock also.

 

yiu can reduce engine compartment heat by a lot by wrapping your headers with header wrap . . this will also lower the engine intake air temp which will also reduce temps.

 

if you run hoses to your core support it will get the inlet air away from the engine intake and reduce engine temp.

 

if your timing is a bit far from ideal for your engine, it can easily run screamin hot and turn your headers cherry red which can even start your plug wires on fire, lol.

.

 

Thanks for the info. I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll keep this short. When I get a moment I'll try a cooler heat range spark plug. Maybe with that I can also advance the ignition timing more. The cylinders are bored 0.030" over. Both myself and Ross Racing calculated the static compression ratio at 10.7:1 with my combination of parts. Lastly, my headers are JBA and ceramic coated but not wrapped.

[barnett468 418]

Thanks for the info. I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll keep this short. When I get a moment I'll try a cooler heat range spark plug. Maybe with that I can also advance the ignition timing more. The cylinders are bored 0.030" over. Both myself and Ross Racing calculated the static compression ratio at 10.7:1 with my combination of parts. Lastly, my headers are JBA and ceramic coated but not wrapped.

 

thats courteos of you but this info might elp the op . . you can also pm me or start your own thread . . i suggest you read the recent thread by juit regarding timing . . if you just hange your t stat and anti freeze ratio as i suggested it will help also toss in a bottle of water wetter . . my thermal underwere works way better than the decorative thermal coating on your headers bu the stuff that works is not pretty . ..if you have iron heads it should run warm . also if they are iron heads use ford ar racing plugs . . the cg on y

[MikeStang 247]

Well here is something I have observed.

1. The Taurus / Lincoln Mark 8 Fan WONT FIT in our cars if you have a decent size radiator in the car, its just to thick.

The Mercury Cougar / Sable and Mestique have a Dual Shallow fan that pulls almost as much air as the Taurus and Lincoln fans do...In fact the Cougar fan has more shroud area than the Taurus and according to a fellow who makes fan controllers that everyone raves over his testing has shown that air flow between the Taurus and Cougar fans is a wash ...one pulls more air but has smaller shroud thus less air is actually being pulled through the radiator via the shroud area and the other has a shroud that covers a mustang radiator top to bottom and side to side.

Here's another Nugget, the Taurus fan sucks more juice on start up and while running than the Dual fans do....

I have never had an issue with reliability of either the single or dual fans...They are factory Ford units....you ever stop and look at a V6 crammed into a 2000 Cougar you just think WE have air flow problems HA.

 

I agree with the 180 Thermostat over the 160 thermostat...I have tried both ways, and IMHO if your having to run a 160 you either have to much compression, not enough air flow or crappy radiator or something just ain't right....I have found that the older blocks tend to run hotter than the newer roller blocks tho or at least that has been my observation of late, I would contribute that to possibly the internal material of the block being coroded away or caked with shit Maybe, or perhaps there were some slight revisions with fords cooling passages in the 80s and 90s?

 

My motor is a 408 with AFR heads and made 550HP on the Dyno, I run a 180 degree thermostat, reverse rotation water pump and serpentine belt system with a Stock water pump with a cast iron impeller, a Jap made 4 Core Champion Radiator that dropped right in and appeared very well constructed and also has Transmission cooler built in that is backed by a factory Plate style cooler from a 2000 model Ford Exploder to keep my 4R70W nice and cool, and to huff the air through I used a set of Dual electric fans from a 2000 Mercury Cougar which are controlled by a 30 dollar Napa fan controller.... The controller actually controls 2 75 amp relays so it does not see any real load the relays take the hit easily, and for safety I have it wired so that in the event the controller goes out I can turn on the AC and the fans come on as they should.

Controller is set to throw the fans on at 190 and cool down to about 175 and then shut off...my car pretty much stays between 175-190 in traffic no matter what. When I'm cruising with everything on the needle never moves from 180 and I run straight distilled water...car stays inside so not worried about water freezing but then again that don't happen much here in Louisiana...

 

When my fans come on it doesn't matter if I'm moving or sitting still my temps fall to the shut off point in about 15 seconds which is a testament to the volume of air the fans move.... I did not wire them in 2 speed mode, I just throw them on in high because I am running a 75 amp relay on each fan which is More than enough.

 

I drove the car to work today :) its a nice 60 degree day here...window down with the heater on ohhh it was nice.

[MikeStang 247]

RCE if your going to be around the house this weekend Ill bring my car by and you can look at it and we can go for a ride if you like... you will have to excuse the car tho it is in dire need of a bath and for me to finish building the center console.

I'm taking a ride on Sat to Biloxi to go see about some rims and tires around Noon so before noon or after about 3pm on Sat would be cool or anytime Sunday.

I'm over in Denham so if you need an extra hand turning a wrench just give me a shout, we need to have you on the road for Cruising the Coast next year

[barnett468 418]

hello mikestang

 

what part of the big fans hit . . the back of the shroud can be cut around 1" to reduce depth . . the shroud can also be removed for additional clearance . . even though the shroud is removed, the big fans cover enough area and suck enough air that the shroud is unnecessary for most apps , . the dual fans use less power because they flow around 500 cfm less air ut they still flow alot . . and yes as far as the factory fans go, i never heard of one dying and they take them off of cars with 100,000 miles where they have run continuously . . it's simply amazing, lol.

 

a brand new contour fan from the dealer that flows just as much or more than 2 10" spall fans and it has a shroud, is only 180.00 . . the spalls are 150.00 each.

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[MikeStang 247]

Yes the factory units are a Much better value and work 100 times better than the best aftermarket units do

[MikeStang 247]

Well here is my set-up that I KNOW for a fact will fit and works fine, and he will have to have a radiator just about this big and will also have to have the CFM from a fan to cool it and this is the tightest package you can get....you can trim about 1" off the shroud on these if you had to but why bother, from what i understand its best to have some depth on your shroud, thats why I wouldnt bother trying a Taurus or Mark 8 fan too much cutting to try to make it fit...why bother, buy what fits the 1st time and will more than keep it cool :)

[chillininnh 21]

I used the brand radiator Barnett mentioned and am very pleased with it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/67-70-FORD-MUSTANG-COUGAR-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-W-SPAL-FANS-AND-SHROUD-30102022-/290911988529?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item43bbb4ab31

 

 

 

[MikeStang 247]

yes Im sure I can cram a Mark 8 fan in there and make it work but like you said it will be just the fan and mounting brackets, and I know he wants a shroud and something that looks nice thus my response "It wont fit" Maybe I should have said it wont fit with any of the shroud on it lol...there is less than 5" of room if I recall from when I got my set up going

[barnett468 418]

Well here is my set-up that I KNOW for a fact will fit and works fine, and he will have to have a radiator just about this big and will also have to have the CFM from a fan to cool it and this is the tightest package you can get....you can trim about 1" off the shroud on these if you had to but why bother, from what i understand its best to have some depth on your shroud, thats why I wouldnt bother trying a Taurus or Mark 8 fan too much cutting to try to make it fit...why bother, buy what fits the 1st time and will more than keep it cool :)

 

ok got ya . . great photos, thanks . . the pre 69 cars have a hair more room i think.

[RCE1313 23]

Thanks everyone for the info and it should help with my purchase! It's great getting all this help/advice from everyone.

 

MikeStang - I'll be back in town this weekend but planned to take a break from working on the car to head out to LSU for the big game. I definitely want to come check out your car or you can come by and check out my build. Once I saw your pictures of your car I believe I saw you and a dark red mustang at CTC in ocean springs. If I don't have mine ready by next year I'll be depressed! I'm hoping to get more stuff accomplished when I take off for thanksgiving week.

[MikeStang 247]

Well RCE looking at your profile pic you should have no problem getting it together by CTC Next year....Were seriously considering do the 2015 Power Tour so you better get busy.

Give me a shout this weekend if ya get time would like to check out your build...I may have some extra parts you can use.

225-241-3278

Mike

[bryonbush 85]

looking at the pictures posted up and was wondering, how much difference is there between having the electrical fans vs original fan if its not going to be used for racing or hard driving? with the new motor that will be going in, i'm wondering if i should get a new, updated rad and add the electric if i need it or do it all at once.

[barnett468 418]

a good mechanical fan like a fex a lite 1717p that does not use a clutch flows about as mnuch air as a good factory electric fan above around 1500 engine rpm . . at higher engine rpm it can fko more.

[LindenBruce 27]

If you are stock or lightly modded and are wondering if you should go electric just to keep your new engine cool just ask yourself this? How many of our cars had clutch fans or fixed fans with brand new motors when they rolled off the assembly line? Every single one that's how many. And the vast majority of those had no problems at all.

 

So I would have no issue staying with a thermal clutch fan on the vast majority of applications. Besides, if you go electric, now you have to run wires, add relays, add a temp sensor, increase alternator capacity, and listen to a noisy fan when you are at a stop light. IDK, maybe it's just me?

 

B.

[barnett468 418]

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I need some help or advice on purchasing a new radiator and fan/s. I've got a 408w and I plan on running A/C. I've been researching online and have found some good reviews on Griffin radiators. I was curious what other people are running and if there is brands to stay away from or websites with good deals and combos. Any help would be appreciated.

A 408 is not a stock stroke for a 351. The increased stroke generates more heat. Also, if the engine has been bored out it is no longer the stock bore. Boring a cylinder reduces its cooling capacity. Also, the more hp an engine makes the more heat it makes.

 

You also aren't likely to hear electric fans over a 400 hp plus engine.

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Edited November 8, 2014 by barnett468