holley runing rich all the time

[juit 34]

Thanks in advance

 

timing:

initial 12

2000 mec 19

2000 vac 32

3000 mec 24

3000 vac 44 or more

 

none adj vac can

 

 

I have a holley 4160

4 hole plastec spacer

2121 intake

my engine is a 302

bored 40

timed at 10

pertronics

spark plugs @ 36 motorcraft brand

just replaced the pcv valve

14 inch aem washable filter

7 psi gas pressure

 

follow up:

 

made different configurations with springs got this results maybe this timing curves help you out for your engine needs

 

Before changing plate from 10L to 15L stock springs

750 14

1000 14

1500 15

2000 18

2500 20

3000 23

3500 26

 

single stock spring

700 12

1500 18

2000 21

2500 25

3000 30

3500 35

 

2 mr gasket springs

700 10

1000 10

1500 12

2000 22

2500 32

3000 32

3500 33

 

mr gasket and stock spring

750 12

1500 19

2000 24

2500 28

3000 32

3500 34

 

 

this carb is runing rich all the time any Ideas are welcome

 

Ive set up the idle screws with vac same results

 

AFM rich all the time on last led

 

gas smell in cabin while crusing

 

 

ended up using this curve:

 

mr gasket and stock loose spring

750 12

1500 19

2000 24

2500 28

3000 32

3500 34

holly avenger 570

runs lean at 65 MPH

 

Update

 

cruise rpm went from 2200RPM @ 65 MPH to 1700 RPM

Edited December 15, 2014 by juit

[jagbucket 10]

check the float?

[barnett468 418]

hello juit

 

is dist vacuum connected to ported or manifold?

 

is there vacuum at ported port at idle?

 

what is total timing with vac hose disconnected?

 

what is your spark plugs are heat range?

 

can you post a photo of one of your plugs gfrom a 45 degree angle?

 

set gas level in carb to just below the inspection hole while idling .

 

reduce fuel pressure to 5.

 

what are your jet sizes? . . they should be around 67 front 69 rear near sea level.

 

power valve should be 6.5.

 

air cleaner must be clean.

.

Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468

[LoneWolf2U 136]

What size jets is it running? a 64-66 would be about correct for your eng.

Also a lower fuel line pressure may help as holleys don't do well over 6psi.

[juit 34]

is there vacuum at ported port at idle? Yes

 

what is total timing with vac hose disconnected? 10

 

what is your spark plugs are heat range? 40

 

can you post a photo of one of your plugs gfrom a 45 degree angle?

 

set gas level in carb to just below the inspection hole while idling . non adjustable

 

reduce fuel pressure to 5. What reg you reccomend

 

what are your jet sizes? . . they should be around 67 front 69 rear near sea level. 68

 

power valve should be 6.5. Yes

 

air cleaner must be clean. Yes also tested with no air cleaner same results

.

[barnett468 418]

hello;

 

 

 

what is your entire plug number?

 

does your afr meter not have numbers on it?

 

 

5 psi is my recommendation for fuel pressure.

 

plug your vacuum advance and leave it plugged for now.

 

if your total timing is only 10, this is a big part of your problem. your idle timing should be around 10 and your total timing should be around 32 degrees with no dist vac.

 

it should reach total timing at around 2800 rpm. the total timing must be checked with the dist vac disconnected.

 

your 68 jets should not cause an excessive rich condition but they might be slightly rich. 66 is the smallest you should need in the front.

 

don't worry about the float level in that case. that was an air leak problem you had anyway.

.

Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468

[juit 34]

5 psi is my recommendation for fuel pressure. Reg recomendation?

 

what is your entire plug number? Motorcraft Asf52c

 

if your total timing is only 10, this is a big part of your problem. your idle timing shou.ld be around 10 and your total timing should be around 32 degrees. Sorry is at 30

 

it should reach total timing at around 2800 rpm. the total timing must be checked with the dust vac disconnected. Will do again

 

does your afr meter not have numbers on it? no just leds

[barnett468 418]

hello;

 

ok your heat range is 5 which is fine.

 

set the fuel regulator between 4.5 - 5.5 psi.

 

do not trust your afr meter.

 

if your timing is fine and it runs perfectly with no hesitation when acceleration or surging at steady throttle, its perfect, lol.

 

a photo of a plug will help greatly.

.

Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468

[1969Fstback 58]

When running at low RPM's at 35-40 mph I could smell what I believe to be raw gas. I have a holley 570 street avenger. My issue was the vacuum secondary opening as soon as you hit the throttle any at all. I changed the spring to a stiffer one and almost all the smell went away. I think once I put new plugs in it will all go away.

 

You can put a paper clip on the arm going from the vacuum diaphram to the secondary butterfly. Drive it around see if the clip moves. If the vacuum pulls it it will slide the clip down.

[juit 34]

What regulator are you using? I have a mech pump

 

I did the clip and it never opened on city

[barnett468 418]

What regulator are you using? I have a mech pump

 

I did the clip and it never opened on city

 

hey, quit driving your car and get us those timing specs, lol.

 

ok find an open stretch and floor if from a stop in first gear up to max rpm to see if they even open at all.

[barnett468 418]

You can put a paper clip on the arm going from the vacuum diaphram to the secondary butterfly. Drive it around see if the clip moves. If the vacuum pulls it it will slide the clip down.

 

lol, that's brilliant. great idea.

[juit 34]

hey, quit driving your car and get us those timing specs, lol.

 

ok find an open stretch and floor if from a stop in first gear up to max rpm to see if they even open at all.

 

lol

 

it opens but not in the city

 

I bought a 12-803 from holley to keep it in 4.5 psi thats what they are reccomending also if my psi jumping around they reccomend to change the mech pump with a new one

 

I want to take it to the strip in sunday but I want to tie up the loose ends before hitting the strip

Edited October 22, 2014 by juit

[larryc94 38]

I found it hard to get the paper clip to stay. a wire tie not to tight around the shaft works for me.

[barnett468 418]

lol

 

it opens but not in the city

 

I bought a 12-803 from holley to keep it in 4.5 psi thats what they are reccomending also if my psi jumping around they reccomend to change the mech pump with a new one

 

I want to take it to the strip in sunday but I want to tie up the loose ends before hitting the strip

 

i thought you said your pressure was at 7 psi.

 

if you want to run it at the drags i would get those timing numbers, otherwise a turtle might beat you, lol.

.

[juit 34]

Yes is at 7 but they are reccomending to go on 4.5 and see if the car would not starve then go from there

 

I also set the floats a mm lower, im thinking in adding hevy springs on the floats

[barnett468 418]

Yes is at 7 but they are reccomending to go on 4.5 and see if the car would not starve then go from there

 

I also set the floats a mm lower, im thinking in adding hevy springs on the floats

 

your float level is not causing it to run rich.

 

changing to a heavier spring on the floats is for road race or off road cars only.

 

you just need to fix your timing, and possibly use a slightly smaller jet thats all, nothing else. but we can't tell without spark plug photos.

.

Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468

[Max Power 74]

lol, that's brilliant. great idea.

 

I am surprised you have not heard of that. You seem old school and that is an old school trick.

[barnett468 418]

I am surprised you have not heard of that. You seem old school and that is an old school trick.

lol, yes i am both old [kinda] and old school. i actually have something else for that so i never thought of a paper clip instead of what i do. if i have any computer stuff that needs doing i just have our neighbors 14 year old kid do it.

Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468

[MikeStang 247]

Im running my first Vac secondary carb on a ford now, have in the past used Q-Jets on Pontiac and Chevy's but always used manual secondary carbs on Fords.

I am starting to really like the Vac secondary carbs but seems everyone has issues to resolve with the Holley Street avengers or Street Demons etc...

I had issues with my 770 which seemed to be rich at idle...bumped up initial timing and cured that, then had floats sticking closed, rebuilt the carb and fixed that, also went from the stock .098 to .110 needle and seat and put fuel pressure at 6psi which is where i always run it.

All in all seems to be a good little carb that is growing on me, and when coupled with a 4R70w and 3.25 rear gears it makes for some good launches and gas mileage that is better than I have ever had in an old car

[barnett468 418]

Im running my first Vac secondary carb on a ford now, have in the past used Q-Jets on Pontiac and Chevy's but always used manual secondary carbs on Fords.

I am starting to really like the Vac secondary carbs but seems everyone has issues to resolve with the Holley Street avengers or Street Demons etc...

I had issues with my 770 which seemed to be rich at idle...bumped up initial timing and cured that, then had floats sticking closed, rebuilt the carb and fixed that, also went from the stock .098 to .110 needle and seat and put fuel pressure at 6psi which is where i always run it.

All in all seems to be a good little carb that is growing on me, and when coupled with a 4R70w and 3.25 rear gears it makes for some good launches and gas mileage that is better than I have ever had in an old car

 

the street avengers have some easily cured probs should they arise, but unless you are a tuning master, the demons are tough. actually, the quick fuel slayer and ss series are superior to the street avengers.

.

Edited October 23, 2014 by barnett468

[Max Power 74]

lol, yes i am both old [kinda] and old school. i actually have something else for that so i never thought of a paper clip instead of what i do. if i have any computer stuff that needs doing i just have our neighbors 14 year old kid do it.

 

What other trick do you use to make sure the vacuum secondaries are opening? I have never known any other than the paper clip trick.

[juit 34]

I havent hated mine, yet, its fun to tinker on it, im really digging to get a quick fuel or a summit and sell this one when the oportunity comes by, im fond to anular boosters, ill see if i can bump the timing without getting any rattles on the engine

[barnett468 418]

I ill see if i can bump the timing without getting any rattles on the engine

 

this will be one good test but others will be necessary to figure out whats going on. since by your description, your mechanical advance and vacuum advance are not working these things need to be corrected or you will continue to have probs.

.

[barnett468 418]

What other trick do you use to make sure the vacuum secondaries are opening? I have never known any other than the paper clip trick.

 

sorry, i should have mentioned. i have a piece of dense foam with a slot in it and also a special clamp which is a bit hard to describe and i use either of these on the rod on the valve.