juit 34 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Thanks in advance timing: initial 12 2000 mec 19 2000 vac 32 3000 mec 24 3000 vac 44 or more none adj vac can I have a holley 4160 4 hole plastec spacer 2121 intake my engine is a 302 bored 40 timed at 10 pertronics spark plugs @ 36 motorcraft brand just replaced the pcv valve 14 inch aem washable filter 7 psi gas pressure follow up: made different configurations with springs got this results maybe this timing curves help you out for your engine needs Before changing plate from 10L to 15L stock springs 750 14 1000 14 1500 15 2000 18 2500 20 3000 23 3500 26 single stock spring 700 12 1500 18 2000 21 2500 25 3000 30 3500 35 2 mr gasket springs 700 10 1000 10 1500 12 2000 22 2500 32 3000 32 3500 33 mr gasket and stock spring 750 12 1500 19 2000 24 2500 28 3000 32 3500 34 this carb is runing rich all the time any Ideas are welcome Ive set up the idle screws with vac same results AFM rich all the time on last led gas smell in cabin while crusing ended up using this curve: mr gasket and stock loose spring 750 12 1500 19 2000 24 2500 28 3000 32 3500 34 holly avenger 570 runs lean at 65 MPH Update cruise rpm went from 2200RPM @ 65 MPH to 1700 RPM Edited December 15, 2014 by juit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jagbucket 10 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 check the float? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) hello juit is dist vacuum connected to ported or manifold? is there vacuum at ported port at idle? what is total timing with vac hose disconnected? what is your spark plugs are heat range? can you post a photo of one of your plugs gfrom a 45 degree angle? set gas level in carb to just below the inspection hole while idling . reduce fuel pressure to 5. what are your jet sizes? . . they should be around 67 front 69 rear near sea level. power valve should be 6.5. air cleaner must be clean. . Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LoneWolf2U 136 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 What size jets is it running? a 64-66 would be about correct for your eng. Also a lower fuel line pressure may help as holleys don't do well over 6psi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juit 34 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 is there vacuum at ported port at idle? Yes what is total timing with vac hose disconnected? 10 what is your spark plugs are heat range? 40 can you post a photo of one of your plugs gfrom a 45 degree angle? set gas level in carb to just below the inspection hole while idling . non adjustable reduce fuel pressure to 5. What reg you reccomend what are your jet sizes? . . they should be around 67 front 69 rear near sea level. 68 power valve should be 6.5. Yes air cleaner must be clean. Yes also tested with no air cleaner same results . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) hello; what is your entire plug number? does your afr meter not have numbers on it? 5 psi is my recommendation for fuel pressure. plug your vacuum advance and leave it plugged for now. if your total timing is only 10, this is a big part of your problem. your idle timing should be around 10 and your total timing should be around 32 degrees with no dist vac. it should reach total timing at around 2800 rpm. the total timing must be checked with the dist vac disconnected. your 68 jets should not cause an excessive rich condition but they might be slightly rich. 66 is the smallest you should need in the front. don't worry about the float level in that case. that was an air leak problem you had anyway. . Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juit 34 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 5 psi is my recommendation for fuel pressure. Reg recomendation? what is your entire plug number? Motorcraft Asf52c if your total timing is only 10, this is a big part of your problem. your idle timing shou.ld be around 10 and your total timing should be around 32 degrees. Sorry is at 30 it should reach total timing at around 2800 rpm. the total timing must be checked with the dust vac disconnected. Will do again does your afr meter not have numbers on it? no just leds Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) hello; ok your heat range is 5 which is fine. set the fuel regulator between 4.5 - 5.5 psi. do not trust your afr meter. if your timing is fine and it runs perfectly with no hesitation when acceleration or surging at steady throttle, its perfect, lol. a photo of a plug will help greatly. . Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969Fstback 58 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 When running at low RPM's at 35-40 mph I could smell what I believe to be raw gas. I have a holley 570 street avenger. My issue was the vacuum secondary opening as soon as you hit the throttle any at all. I changed the spring to a stiffer one and almost all the smell went away. I think once I put new plugs in it will all go away. You can put a paper clip on the arm going from the vacuum diaphram to the secondary butterfly. Drive it around see if the clip moves. If the vacuum pulls it it will slide the clip down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juit 34 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 What regulator are you using? I have a mech pump I did the clip and it never opened on city Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 What regulator are you using? I have a mech pump I did the clip and it never opened on city hey, quit driving your car and get us those timing specs, lol. ok find an open stretch and floor if from a stop in first gear up to max rpm to see if they even open at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 You can put a paper clip on the arm going from the vacuum diaphram to the secondary butterfly. Drive it around see if the clip moves. If the vacuum pulls it it will slide the clip down. lol, that's brilliant. great idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juit 34 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) hey, quit driving your car and get us those timing specs, lol. ok find an open stretch and floor if from a stop in first gear up to max rpm to see if they even open at all. lol it opens but not in the city I bought a 12-803 from holley to keep it in 4.5 psi thats what they are reccomending also if my psi jumping around they reccomend to change the mech pump with a new one I want to take it to the strip in sunday but I want to tie up the loose ends before hitting the strip Edited October 22, 2014 by juit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larryc94 38 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 I found it hard to get the paper clip to stay. a wire tie not to tight around the shaft works for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 lol it opens but not in the city I bought a 12-803 from holley to keep it in 4.5 psi thats what they are reccomending also if my psi jumping around they reccomend to change the mech pump with a new one I want to take it to the strip in sunday but I want to tie up the loose ends before hitting the strip i thought you said your pressure was at 7 psi. if you want to run it at the drags i would get those timing numbers, otherwise a turtle might beat you, lol. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juit 34 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 Yes is at 7 but they are reccomending to go on 4.5 and see if the car would not starve then go from there I also set the floats a mm lower, im thinking in adding hevy springs on the floats Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Yes is at 7 but they are reccomending to go on 4.5 and see if the car would not starve then go from there I also set the floats a mm lower, im thinking in adding hevy springs on the floats your float level is not causing it to run rich. changing to a heavier spring on the floats is for road race or off road cars only. you just need to fix your timing, and possibly use a slightly smaller jet thats all, nothing else. but we can't tell without spark plug photos. . Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Power 74 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 lol, that's brilliant. great idea. I am surprised you have not heard of that. You seem old school and that is an old school trick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) I am surprised you have not heard of that. You seem old school and that is an old school trick. lol, yes i am both old [kinda] and old school. i actually have something else for that so i never thought of a paper clip instead of what i do. if i have any computer stuff that needs doing i just have our neighbors 14 year old kid do it. Edited October 22, 2014 by barnett468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeStang 247 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 Im running my first Vac secondary carb on a ford now, have in the past used Q-Jets on Pontiac and Chevy's but always used manual secondary carbs on Fords. I am starting to really like the Vac secondary carbs but seems everyone has issues to resolve with the Holley Street avengers or Street Demons etc... I had issues with my 770 which seemed to be rich at idle...bumped up initial timing and cured that, then had floats sticking closed, rebuilt the carb and fixed that, also went from the stock .098 to .110 needle and seat and put fuel pressure at 6psi which is where i always run it. All in all seems to be a good little carb that is growing on me, and when coupled with a 4R70w and 3.25 rear gears it makes for some good launches and gas mileage that is better than I have ever had in an old car Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Im running my first Vac secondary carb on a ford now, have in the past used Q-Jets on Pontiac and Chevy's but always used manual secondary carbs on Fords.I am starting to really like the Vac secondary carbs but seems everyone has issues to resolve with the Holley Street avengers or Street Demons etc... I had issues with my 770 which seemed to be rich at idle...bumped up initial timing and cured that, then had floats sticking closed, rebuilt the carb and fixed that, also went from the stock .098 to .110 needle and seat and put fuel pressure at 6psi which is where i always run it. All in all seems to be a good little carb that is growing on me, and when coupled with a 4R70w and 3.25 rear gears it makes for some good launches and gas mileage that is better than I have ever had in an old car the street avengers have some easily cured probs should they arise, but unless you are a tuning master, the demons are tough. actually, the quick fuel slayer and ss series are superior to the street avengers. . Edited October 23, 2014 by barnett468 1 PhillipEn reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Power 74 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 lol, yes i am both old [kinda] and old school. i actually have something else for that so i never thought of a paper clip instead of what i do. if i have any computer stuff that needs doing i just have our neighbors 14 year old kid do it. What other trick do you use to make sure the vacuum secondaries are opening? I have never known any other than the paper clip trick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juit 34 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 I havent hated mine, yet, its fun to tinker on it, im really digging to get a quick fuel or a summit and sell this one when the oportunity comes by, im fond to anular boosters, ill see if i can bump the timing without getting any rattles on the engine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 I ill see if i can bump the timing without getting any rattles on the engine this will be one good test but others will be necessary to figure out whats going on. since by your description, your mechanical advance and vacuum advance are not working these things need to be corrected or you will continue to have probs. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted October 23, 2014 What other trick do you use to make sure the vacuum secondaries are opening? I have never known any other than the paper clip trick. sorry, i should have mentioned. i have a piece of dense foam with a slot in it and also a special clamp which is a bit hard to describe and i use either of these on the rod on the valve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites