4.6 in a 69 with SOT front suspension

[Stock 87 12]

I'm currently doing a full rotisserie rehab on a '69 fastback. It's a nothing car as far as historic value so I'm modifying it to my liking. It's just going to be a weekend toy for corner carving. Not a show piece, more like something you'd see in a cannonball run.:)

 

Original plans are for SOT front and rear suspension, T5, big disc brakes F&R, rebuild the factory 302 (maybe single turbo), change the rear 9" ratio to 3.73, etc. Problem is finding a t5 seems impossible. Not going to budge on the suspension. I want the car to handle like its on rails. Anything derived from M2 parts/design isn't going to cut it. I don't like the way crossmember style systems load the unibody either.

 

While looking for a t5 I found a 97 gt. It's a 4.6, 5 speed, 8.8 with 4.10's and a LSD. It also has disc brakes on all four corners. Guys giving it up for less than a t5 would cost me without the bell. I can get a modern drivetrain with all of the computers, hydraulics, etc. I'm thinking most of the 97 parts could be grafted into my 69. Clutch master, brake booster, maybe even the air conditioning.

 

Can a four six fit with a SOT front end? I know they are huge, and in order to fit one the shock towers need to be modded. I have no problem carving them up to make it. Anyone done one with a SOT front end yet?

[Rsanter 158]

What is an SOT front end?

Sorry, haven't heard of it or am not connecting the dots.

 

There have been a few really great builds where people have taken the body off the new car leaving the platform intact. And putting the body of the old car on the new platform..

If you are getting the whole car and the platform is good then I see this as a viable option.

 

The other option of to drop your body on a full custom frame like the ART CAR frame and you can basically use whatever suspension you want front and back and you will have tons of room up front for the engine

 

Bob

[SM69Mach 68]

I am guessing SOT=Street or Track. I would sayt great choice there as that is just what I put on my car as well.

 

As for the engine and Shock towers, I am not sure that will work with the SOT set up. He still uses the upper control arm mounting points that are used with the stock set up. I believe when you modify the shock towers for the motor to you remove those mounting points. I could be totally wrong, but that is just my first impression.

Edited April 30, 2014 by SM69Mach

[MustangChuck 16]

SOT is Street-or-Track.

 

I know you can notch the shock towers. Look here and here for a pair of good articles on notching.

 

Many of the items in question can be grafted to the 69. The front brakes will require making a bracket, as I have been told that MustangSteve's SN95 Cobra Brake Mounting Plates won't fit the 11" GT rotors and calipers. The rear axle can be grafted, if you cut off the mounting brackets and weld on spring perches. Unfortunately, I don't have a link to a good no-modification-necessary spring perch for this project (I will be grafting the rear axle from a 94 GT at some point).

 

The accessories should fit, since the 4.6 is shorter front-to-back than the old pushrod 5.0. You may want to consider a low profile dual electric fan setup from a 99-02 V6 Ford Contour/Mercury Cougar. That will give you a little more clearance. EDIT: A 99-02 Mercury Mystique V6 has the same fan. You will need to swap radiators to a 1970 (or a 67-70 big block) radiator so the in and out are on the sides required by the 4.6's water pump.

 

You can even use the rims with some 25mm TRAK+ DRM (PN 5065705) hub-centric spacers. I have a set of 97 GT 17" rims on mine and love the look.

 

Here are 1, 2, and 3 articles on swapping the EFI on that 4.6 to a carb and getting ~450 HP out of it. Parts cost is under $6000.

 

Good luck with the build.

Chuck

Edited May 6, 2014 by MustangChuck
(edit)

[MustangChuck 16]

And, for what it's worth, the Boss '9 was wider than even the DOHC Coyote engine. You should be able to notch the towers as above to fit the 4.6, while retaining the upper control arm mounting location. You will, however, need a new oil pan. I know Canton makes one for the Coyote. Don't know if it will bolt to the 4.6 or not.

 

Chuck

Edited April 30, 2014 by MustangChuck

[Stock 87 12]

And, for what it's worth, the Boss '9 was wider than even the DOHC Coyote engine. You should be able to notch the towers as above to fit the 4.6, while retaining the upper control arm mounting location. You will, however, need a new oil pan. I know Canton makes one for the Coyote. Don't know if it will bolt to the 4.6 or not.

 

Chuck

 

Thanks ALOT!

Those links are what I needed to see. Looks like its time to go get the donor and a tape measure.

 

Yes, SoT=street or track. I been looking at Shaun's offerings for quite a while. I know I could contact them about doing this but...I like to see it done before I jump in with both feet.

 

Those four sixes can be supercharged with factory parts fairly easy too!:001_cool:

[latoracing 257]

Looks like you are thinking about sticking a single over head cam 4.6 motor in, not as wide as a 4-cam, so there shouldn't be quite as much fitment issues. Notching will still be in your future, and can be done.

 

I have bought a bunch of Street or Track suspension parts from Shaun, well worth every penny. The front coil over will allow a little bit more room for notching as the spring diameter is smaller than stock. The two valve motor would be fun with some kind of blower attached.

 

The 8.8 should be semi easy, compared to the Mod motor install. Just need some spring perches, loose the stock lower mounts and weld on the leaf spring stuff. The SN-95 rear axle is wider than a Fox body (ABS rings on the axles). A 79-93 Fox body 8.8 is 59" flange to flange as the SN-95 is 1 1/2" wider (don't remember exactly off the top of my head) but I do know the housings are the same width with the axles making up the extra width.

 

Sounds like fun, good luck with all the mixing of parts!

[MustangChuck 16]

You are welcome. The MOD engines interest me. Even though my 69 is a nothing special straight-6 fastback, its shock towers are in great shape and I just can't bring myself to cutting them. I bought a 94 GT as a donor. The 97 is nearly identical for everything except the engine, transmission and engine control electronics.

 

I personally wouldn't bother adapting the front brakes. The single piston calipers suck. On my 95 GT convertible, I've had the original single piston, the 99 dual piston and 03 Cobra calipers/rotors. The dual piston calipers made almost no difference. The Cobra calipers/rotors added MUCHO stopping power. Best mod I've made to the car.

 

Chuck

[Stock 87 12]

The 8.8 should be semi easy, compared to the Mod motor install. Just need some spring perches, loose the stock lower mounts and weld on the leaf spring stuff. The SN-95 rear axle is wider than a Fox body (ABS rings on the axles). A 79-93 Fox body 8.8 is 59" flange to flange as the SN-95 is 1 1/2" wider (don't remember exactly off the top of my head) but I do know the housings are the same width with the axles making up the extra width.

 

Sounds like fun, good luck with all the mixing of parts!

 

Rear axle won't be finding its way into my car. The 8.8 would be good for sale/trade. I luckily have a 9" that will be staying in the car. SoT three link does away with all of the leaf springs and associated hardware too. I'll end up welding something to my housing at some point I'm sure.

[MustangChuck 16]

The 8.8 should be semi easy, compared to the Mod motor install. Just need some spring perches, loose the stock lower mounts and weld on the leaf spring stuff. The SN-95 rear axle is wider than a Fox body (ABS rings on the axles). A 79-93 Fox body 8.8 is 59" flange to flange as the SN-95 is 1 1/2" wider (don't remember exactly off the top of my head) but I do know the housings are the same width with the axles making up the extra width.

 

This is just confirming what you've said.

 

The 67-70 rear axle is 59.25" wide, which is the same width as the Fox rear end. The SN95 rear axle is another 1.5" over that. With the use of the SN95 rims, you would only need a 1/8" spacer on each side to keep the same track width.

 

As a side note, you can convert a Fox rear to 5 lug with two short side mid-90s Ford Ranger axles. I believe you can also "shorten" the SN95 rear using the same axles. I believe the housings are identical between the Fox and SN95.

 

Chuck

[MustangChuck 16]

Rear axle won't be finding its way into my car. The 8.8 would be good for sale/trade. I luckily have a 9" that will be staying in the car. SoT three link does away with all of the leaf springs and associated hardware too. I'll end up welding something to my housing at some point I'm sure.

 

Ooooooohhhhhh!!! You're planning the 3-link system. I would LOVE to have one of those. Post pictures and a write up when you get it installed, please!

 

Chuck

[Stock 87 12]

Just got done reading about the carb swap. $800 for a stand alone ignition system doesn't sound bad at all. Even comes with an intake.

 

Now you really have me thinking.

[latoracing 257]

This is just confirming what you've said.

 

The 67-70 rear axle is 59.25" wide, which is the same width as the Fox rear end. The SN95 rear axle is another 1.5" over that. With the use of the SN95 rims, you would only need a 1/8" spacer on each side to keep the same track width.

 

As a side note, you can convert a Fox rear to 5 lug with two short side mid-90s Ford Ranger axles. I believe you can also "shorten" the SN95 rear using the same axles. I believe the housings are identical between the Fox and SN95.

 

Chuck

 

A 69/70 rear end measures 59.75" flange to flange. A 79-93 Mustang 8.8" measures 59" flange to flange. The short side Ranger axle swap works great, as long as the splines are the same, most are 31 spline.

 

Stock 87,

 

I didn't realise you were going with the 3-link, trust me, it is cool. I am mini tubing my car and couldn't run a leaf setup, the 3-link is pretty easy to install, and comes with everything needed to do such. I opted for a full floater 9", so I didn't have to weld brackets to an existing housing, but would have been "easy" to do. I posted pics on my build thread if you want to check out the mockup.

[Stock 87 12]

I have read your entire thread. Nice work BTW!

I even commented about my rust wagon being very similar to yours. :mellow: The suspension choice, color, the rust... Oh boy the rust. I'm not going to be running a cage though, at least not right now. If I find I need to tighten the car up I'll put one in. For now I just want to get it mocked up and the major metal work behind me.

 

the idea of installing a mod motor was in my head from the very beginning. After a lot of research I kinda forgot about jamming one into my car for packaging reasons. I'm finding that a lot of guys are gun shy about cutting up these cars. Very few builds that I have seen are what I would consider "hard core". Guys shave the door handles and put on a set of twenty inch rims then call it a resto-mod. I see it like this...if I don't do it, the guy after me will:tt2:

 

Now...if I was to convert it to run carbed, popping a shaker on top would still be a viable option.

[MustangChuck 16]

Just got done reading about the carb swap. $800 for a stand alone ignition system doesn't sound bad at all. Even comes with an intake.

 

Now you really have me thinking.

 

With the new heads and cams, they claim to get over 200 more HP with the lower rotating assembly being stock. If I were to do the swap, I'd heavily consider it, especially since I want a shaker scoop. And about a year ago, I had priced out all the parts listed and was able to come close to the magazine's price list.

 

Chuck

[MustangChuck 16]

A 69/70 rear end measures 59.75" flange to flange. A 79-93 Mustang 8.8" measures 59" flange to flange. The short side Ranger axle swap works great, as long as the splines are the same, most are 31 spline.

 

Quite possible I have the numbers wrong in my head. I tried to fact check prior to posting and the two sites I came across said both the Fox and 67-70 axles were 59.25". 59.75" sounds familiar, though.....

 

Chuck

[rwcstang 214]

SOT is the best, I have their coil over conversion and absolutely love it!

[stangme428 33]

now that would be interesting to see a 4.6 2v with a carb and some valve covers that looked old school like a SOHC..

 

I tried to fit a 98 DOHC in my 69 around 1999, but didnt want to cut my shock towers after welding in all the shock tower support pieces ... i currently have a Coyote motor sitting in the garage but still cant bring my self to cut the shock towers.... but the more i drive my car... the more i want to drive it every day!!

 

a good link to 2v-4v mod motor measurements from sullivan performance.

 

cant wait to see where you go with the build!!

 

wow just read the Hot Rod article on the TFS heads.... looks like they made some canted valve heads for the 4.6... nice!

Edited May 2, 2014 by stangme428
hot rod article

[MikeStang 247]

Look Up DarkHorse on Youtube...they built one with a Supercharged 4.6L

Have to modify the shock Towers as well as cut the trans tunnel up a bit.

I think they used one of those suspensions where you just remove the shock Towers all together...all in all a nice build.

If I recall the Mustang Blackened That Foose Built a While Back had a 4.6L Supercharged motor as well

[Stock 87 12]

I looked up the dark horse build, they used a M2 style front end. Can't find much info on the foose build. What they did at this point means very little to me.

 

I'm back to building a hot 4.6 for mine. Now that I know you can run the mod motors carbed. Having a carb gets me back to being able to run a shaker. Mmmm shaker, I like shakers. I also am finding that Lincoln's came with 32v 4.6's and you can get them for a song. Around here the whole car can be had for $1,500. First thing I gotta figure out is if the 4v would be worth the trouble.

 

I'm also going to be running the street or track front and rear systems. I may end up being the first guy to do it.:stuart:

 

For now I'm going to abandon this thread. I'm going to start a build thread complete with picture documentation. As of now she's completely stripped hanging on a rotisserie laying on her side. I'm not far from installing a full floor. Only thing is, I need a mock up drivetrain to check clearances etc. I hate doing things twice.

 

FWIW: my factory nine inch is 59.75" wms to wms.

[MustangChuck 16]

If I recall, the Lincolns had a blockoff plate that would choke one intake valve per cylinder when the engine wasn't at WOT. They were notorious for sticking, usually in the closed position.

 

I am also not sure the Edelbrock intake will work with 4v heads. It won't work with the 96 heads. It requires the PI (99+) or the TFS heads.

 

About the only real nice thing about the Lincoln engine is the block should be a TEKSID block, one of the strongest MOD blocks Ford made. You can convert from 4v to 2v. I think it requires pretty much new heads, timing chain and cover. I'm sure there's more.

 

Good luck with the project.

 

Chuck

[stangme428 33]

big write up on 4.6 heads 32v

 

IMRC plate delete hardware

 

remember the 32v headed mod motors are W-I-D-E, unlike the 2V headed mod motors... i would think a very good combination would be the TFS 4.6 heads with the teksid block... makes me want to rebuild my wifes 96 GT convertible with those heads!! stick the carb intake on it, run a throttle body and efi...:punk: