Sinkhole swallows up some corvette's

[Flanders 46]

Did you guys hear about the sinkhole at the corvette museum? I mean, they're not Mustangs or anything :) , but these cars were still special:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/12/corvette-museum-sinkhole/5417171/

 

[jholmes217 65]

Just goes to show God likes Fords!

[mustangstofear 608]

Just goes to show God likes Fords!

 

Amen to that brother LOL.

[Bossed 10]

Corvettes have never done anything for me, but I wouldn't wish that on another man's ride. The thing that scares me is that sinkhole. The thing is enormous!!

[Rsanter 152]

Heard about that, that is an awful shame.

But you know it's just some corvettes, if it was mustangs they would already have a rescue mission under way for the cars

 

Bob

[jgstang 21]

i was just reading this post and replys to my wife and daughter and i have not heard them both laugh so hard in a long time....good stuff guys! :clap:

[bobh67 18]

Quick get the backhoe and fill it before they get out. And yes use a FORD backhoe.

[stangs-R-me 120]

Heard about this earlier in the week. Driven past that museum many, many times going down to Florida over the years but never stopped. As a die hard Ford man, I'm not into Corvettes and does not help that none of my 3 kids or my wife are into cars.

 

It always caught my attention as we drove by though, and would have gladly made it a stop if ANYONE else in my family had any interest.

 

My brother-in-law has had many Corvettes over the years (currently has a newer Grand-Sport Roadster), and he said it is a pretty neat museum.

 

This same B-I-L bought a 2010 V6-MT LS Camaro around the time I bought my 2011 and we did a ride swap one day to compare. Well that Camaro did not last too long as he traded it in on a 2012 V6-AT base model Mustang a year or so later ... he and his wife liked it so much that they traded it on a 2013 V6-AT Premium Pony Package a year later !!

 

 

Anyway, back to the museum ... thought I'd read that the sink hole was contained within the foundation so they may just be able to save the building. It will be interesting to see what they do.

 

Doug

[Rsanter 152]

Wonder if someone at the museaum made a deal with the devil and he was trying to collect on the debt

 

Bob

[69shelbycoupe 11]

That's the best thing that could happened to those vettes. Now all needs to be done is fill that hole with cement!!

[SWPruett 83]

That's the best thing that could happened to those vettes. Now all needs to be done is fill that hole with cement!!

 

Hee, hee, hee! Love it! :thumbup:

[timbo69 10]

That was a terrible disaster. There is footage from security cameras on the net showing the whole thing happening in real time. That hole is 35-40 feet deep. As a Ford and Chevy owner I can say that none of my bowtie friends would wish to see any Mustangs in that hole. In addition to my 69, I also have a 59 Vette. Like the 69, it gets thumbs up wherever I go. So whatever you are driving, you should realize that vettes also have a great history in American motoring. The good news is GM is flipping the bill to restore them all, as I am sure Ford would do if it happened to them.

[69shelbycoupe 11]

That was a terrible disaster. There is footage from security cameras on the net showing the whole thing happening in real time. That hole is 35-40 feet deep. As a Ford and Chevy owner I can say that none of my bowtie friends would wish to see any Mustangs in that hole. In addition to my 69, I also have a 59 Vette. Like the 69, it gets thumbs up wherever I go. So whatever you are driving, you should realize that vettes also have a great history in American motoring. The good news is GM is flipping the bill to restore them all, as I am sure Ford would do if it happened to them.

 

I am well aware of all makes and models and there history. I just don't care about vettes or many other cars for that matter.

[timbo69 10]

Some may be interested in the Larry Shinoda legacy. Came from GM to Ford with Bunky Knudsen, and worked no the 69/70 Boss models. So, a Corvette design guy, and a famous one at that, had a hand in the 69/70 models.

 

Here is a brief article on him and his career. He and Bunky were not at Ford long, but Larry had a lasting impact on the beauty of the 69/70 models... the rest of the 70's went downhill and we know all about that.

 

Larry Shinoda: Creator of the Ford Mustang Boss 302<FORM style="DISPLAY: none" id=_fw_form_entitlementRailTop></FORM>

 

 

Ford Mustang Boss Image Gallery

Larry Shinoda brought to Ford genuine car-guy sense, an eye for clean design, and an outspoken personality. See more pictures of the Ford Mustang Boss.

 

 

 

Larry Shinoda brought to Ford a sense of no-nonsense car-guy cool. His work on the 1969 and 1970 Ford Mustang Boss 302 is all the evidence that statement requires.

Ford Vice President of Design Eugene Bordinat gave the always-outspoken Shinoda his first automotive design job, in 1954, only to see the new graduate of L.A.'s Art Center School leave Dearborn within a year. After a brief stint at faltering Packard, Shinoda was hired by General Motors design boss Harley Earl and was soon working with Bill Mitchell, who soon succeeded Earl, on futuristic concept designs -- and future Corvettes.

Shinoda followed GM president and longtime friend Semon E. "Bunkie" Knudsen in jumping to Ford, in 1968, but both were fired after less than two years in a widely publicized shake-up. Even so, both left their mark on Mustang, the designer most famously with the fast, tight-handling Boss models of 1969-71. Shinoda and Knudsen went on to form RV maker Rectrans, then parted company in mid-1975, when Shinoda opened his own design business. Shinoda died in late 1997 at age 67. Here, in Shinoda's own words, is the story of his work on the Boss 302:

One of the first things I did on coming to Ford was straighten out the Boss 302. They were going to call it the SR2. They had all this chrome on it. They were going to hang big cladding on the side, big rocker moldings. It was going to be more garish than the Mach 1. They had a big grille across the back and a great big gas cap and fake cast exhaust outlets and big hood pins and a really big side scoop. I took all that off, went to the C-stripe decal and painted out the hood, did the rear spoiler and the window shades and front airdam. That vehicle ended up being a profit-improvement program. They only built a few, but they made money on each one.

Shinoda was instrumental in simplifying the design of the 1969 Boss 302.

 

 

Bunkie Knudsen and I knew that to capture some of the youth market you had to have street machines that would run like your race cars. Ford had never done that before, and obviously Knudsen wanted to beat the Z-28 Chevrolets at their own game. So that was my first task coming in there, doing show cars, and getting the Boss going. I knew what kind of horsepower the Z-28 had, where its strong points and weak points were. So I had to find out quickly what the Mustang was all about and what the new developments were.

And what they were working on was pretty much wrong. They had an engine with high horsepower but enormous ports, so the power was very, very peaky. They needed something with a much flatter torque curve. And they needed better vehicle dynamics. They were saying, "All it has to do is go fast." I said, "That's not really where it's at. The Z-28 gets through corners well because it handles well. And it accelerates well off the corner because it got through the corner faster, so you think it's got more horsepower than it does. Another reason it's going through the corner faster is aerodynamics. It has enough downforce in front, balanced with downforce at the rear. Your car has some downforce at the rear with a little built-in spoiler, but not in the front. And the suspension isn't quite right."

They said, "What do you know about it? You're a designer." I said, "I'm a designer, but I've also got common sense, and I know a little bit about vehicle dynamics." Ford at that point had never used their skidpad to check out dynamics. Their skidpad at the Dearborn test track was all torn up at the time. I got an appropriation to repave it.

The Boss 302 was the only 1970 Mustang to record higher model-year production. Sadly, the Boss 302 would not return for a third racing season.

 

 

I took some people in a company plane and flew them over the GM Proving Grounds. I said, "See that? It's Black Lake." "What's it for?" I said, "You'll see." Sure enough, here's Roger Penske's Trans-Am Camaro, the Sunoco Camaro, running on a skidpad. I said, "That's what you need. You play with aerodynamics, suspension, roll stiffness, and tires, and you find out what's going to get around there the fastest. Of course, you'll have to do some adjustments at the race track." In those days, most of the people in Ford's performance department didn't understand vehicle dynamics, which was kind of sad. The people at Chevrolet and, basically, Frank Winchell, wrote the book on that.

And as I said, I removed all the inappropriate things they were going to put on the Boss, including the interior. I think it saved quite a few dollars when we counted it all up. Don Petersen, who was in product planning at the time, got a big kick out of that. He said, "You trying to do our job for us?" I said, "No, just trying to do the job, period."

But there was only so much he could support. Unfortunately, I made bold statements. When someone asked me, "What are your ambitions?," I said to be the first Japanese-American vice-president at Ford Motor Company. I don't think Gene Bordinat liked that.

Saddle up for the complete story of America's best-loved sporty car. How the Ford Mustang Works chronicles the legend from its inception in the early 1960s to today's all-new Mustang.

 

• Sales were lagging, but performance and style were piled on high. Learn how rocky times for the 1969-1970 Ford Mustang resulted in two of the greatest cars in performance history.
  
• The 1970 Ford Mustang Boss 302 was a Chevrolet Camaro Z28 fighter. Learn about this unique muscle car, and see photos and exclusive specifications.
  

[timbo69 10]

Larry Shinoda was a native of Southern California and had a significant impact on automotive design in a number of arenas. He designed passenger cars, land speed record cars, Indianapolis and Can-Am Racers, Motor Homes, heavy-duty truck, dragsters, snowmobiles, go-karts, farm tractors, farm implements, garden tractors, portable hi-pressure washers and even lawn mowers. Obviously he was a man of many talents.

 

 

 

Brand Loyalty or Bigotry?

In our last post we raised the question is Brand Loyalty Bigotry. There are lots of examples of people going overboard thinking their brand of car is the only one worth driving and all the rest are just stupid, dangerous, slow junk! Well, maybe these folks should do a little thinking about the parents of that junk they so despise.

For the auto industry competition is key; it makes for better cars, better races and better shows. This diversity can also lead to new found loves and treasures. Before you become too critical of that “Brand X†car your buddy is looking at, learn about how it came about.

Larry Shinoda is a good example of car design diversity. You might also want to remember that Carroll Shelby first went to Chevrolet with his ideas before being rejected and going to Ford. Also Remember Shelby and Mopar?

-Larry Shinoda was born in 1930. In 1954 Shinoda began his automotive career with Ford. He was only there for a year but did work on the Mercury Turnpike Cruiser Show Car.

-In 1956 he could be found at Studebaker-Packard. While with ill fated Studebaker-Packard Shinoda worked with such other stars as John Z. DeLorean, Dick Teague and Dick Macadam who later went to Chrysler. Shinoda and DeLorean quickly bailed out of Studebaker-Packard and went to GM.

<!-- Begin Google Adsense code --><!-- End Google Adsense code -->

-Shinoda spent over 12 years with General Motors resigning as Chief Designer/Coordinator for Special Vehicles in 1968. He left his imprint on every 1963 production and special show Corvette of the era.

-When GM Vice President Semone Knudsen resigned in 1968 to become President of Ford, Shinoda soon followed. Once there Shinoda was responsible for all high performance vehicles and show cars. He designed the: Boss 302 Mustang; Boss 429 Mustang; Torino Talladega; Cougar Eliminator; Cyclone Spoiler. In addition he designed such special cars as the King Cobra, Torino Design Study; Cyclone Spoiler II; Torino Pace Cars and Mustang Pace Cars.

-In spite of all these accomplishments both Knudsen and Shinoda were fired by Ford after 2 years!

-From there both became involved in the recreational vehicle development and designed the Discoverer 25 rear drive Dodge chassis and front wheel drive Oldsmobile powered Discoverer 27. He continued on with his own design business doing work for GM, Ford and AMC.

-Larry Shinoda died in 1997.

1970 Ford Boss 302

Significance?

 

A passion for anything is good. A passion carried out to the exclusion of all else is bad. Shinoda contributed a great deal to our hobby. He was all about good design and quality products. He didn’t care if it was a Chevy, a Ford, a Studebaker, an AMC or a motor home; he wanted the best.

Look closely at the drawing above and note this Sting Ray has 4 seats! In 1958 Ford introduced the first 4 seat Thunderbird. How would Chevrolet respond; would the Corvette become a 4 seater also? This design study proves it was under consideration. Were we close to seeing the death of the Corvette or did we almost have two models (one two seater and one four seater) like later Jaguar XKE or Datsun Z cars with 4 seats?

This early rendering of the 1963 Corvette by Shinoda shows a different headlight treatment, different grill, turn signals. Look on the side of the car right in front of the rear wheels; there is a scoop. The front fender scoop as we know it today was originally at the rear.

Here is a late prototype 1969 Ford Boss 302 Mustang.

Here is a significantly different rear end design treatment by Shinoda for the Sting Ray Corvette. This may have been another 4 seat version since the door seems extremely long and has an extra side window behind the door.

This may be one of my favorite prototype images. It is obviously and early Sting Ray. It incorporates the wrap around windshield and rounder body lines of the C1 straight axle Corvettes with the new C2 Sting Ray design.

Here is another Corvette by Larry Shinoda.

[SWPruett 83]

Timbo69,

 

Feel better? Did you miss the dry humor in any of this?

 

For what it's worth, I can't stand Corvettes either, BUT I can appreciate the work that goes in to ANY car that reflects exceptional build quality, pride of ownership, and general support of the old car hobby.

 

Relax.......

[timbo69 10]

Quite frankly, I didn't much care about the newer cars in the hole, not that they are insignificant. The 62 was very rare due to its options and color combo. Sort of like 69/70 mustangs. Not a huge fan of non fastback, but I think the 69/70's were first gen mustangs finest hour. Just finishing over 5 years of getting my 69 done. Not stock, but better than. We have a thing called called "Cars and Coffee" every first Sunday of the month and ALL kinds of cars come. Vettes, mustangs, cougars, even a vega once... Only once. Lol. I would be sad to see any destroyed.

I get it, the humor, but thought some may not know all the history. Next project is a Ford as well... 67 galaxie XL convertible. 427. Rare car in Wimbledon white. This will be mainly stock and it is sweet. Like the 69, it is one sweet design, but most folks poo poo it

This forum has helped a ton in problem diagnosis. Inho, 69/70 were one of the best designs and power plants made.

[SWPruett 83]

Quite frankly, I didn't much care about the newer cars in the hole, not that they are insignificant. The 62 was very rare due to its options and color combo. Sort of like 69/70 mustangs. Not a huge fan of non fastback, but I think the 69/70's were first gen mustangs finest hour. Just finishing over 5 years of getting my 69 done. Not stock, but better than. We have a thing called called "Cars and Coffee" every first Sunday of the month and ALL kinds of cars come. Vettes, mustangs, cougars, even a vega once... Only once. Lol. I would be sad to see any destroyed.

I get it, the humor, but thought some may not know all the history. Next project is a Ford as well... 67 galaxie XL convertible. 427. Rare car in Wimbledon white. This will be mainly stock and it is sweet. Like the 69, it is one sweet design, but most folks poo poo it

This forum has helped a ton in problem diagnosis. Inho, 69/70 were one of the best designs and power plants made.

 

Amen to that brother! Couldn't care less about the Mallet or anything else newer than about 66. It is an unimaginable irony that a sinkhole would open up under the "dome" itself, no?

 

As for the history, I think just about everyone who loves the 69/70 Mustang body style (of course the best of the breed) will have a pretty good bacjkground on Shinoda's undeniable influence on the cars, but that history tends to stick closer to the Boss owners than just about anyone else. And as for his stint at Chubrolet, well.......we forgave him a long time ago! Ha! :devil2:

 

BTW, do you have a build thread on your 69? We love that stuff around here......

[timbo69 10]

Gonna post a thread as well as pics.. got tons of them. Took pics of most all stages of progress as I went along.

[SWPruett 83]

Gonna post a thread as well as pics.. got tons of them. Took pics of most all stages of progress as I went along.

 

Right on! I'll be looking for the update. :thumbup1:

[Rudolph Schenker 14]

That's the best thing that could happened to those vettes. Now all needs to be done is fill that hole with cement!!

 

That's a senseless comment...not even remotely funny. Those Vettes represented a lot of history.

[timbo69 10]

That was the comment that got me... While I like the old vettes as classics, there was history there. That was the point I was making. If it was a bunch of Packards, would anyone have reacted this way? Nuff said. I'm done with this post.

[ford4v429 10]

everyone has their favorites- they were someones dream cars :(

 

history or not, they were meticulous examples... shame to see them smashed in the mud. Coulda just as easily been under the Henry Ford museum, or Jay Leno's garage- or our own garages- and I doubt comments from corvette enthusiasts woulda been supportive about a bunch of 'lowly mustangs' as many might think of them... from what Ive seen at car shows, the corvette community is often like 2/3 snobby, 1/3 true car guys.

 

even if they were restored covered wagons, anytime a fire or other disaster hits a museum, its just that much history lost...I pretty much disliked the ford falcon, mom had a couple when i was a kid, even at 5~6 yrs old i thought they were ugly. saw one in the local pull-a-part last week, still sad... without those the mustang never woulda been.

gotta admit as much as the 69 fastback is my all time favorite body style, under the front end is pretty much a falcon that gained half a ton

 

they all made good/all made bad, its all part of the evolution into our personal favorites. lots of gm guys hate the mustangs, but forget without the mustang, the camaro would never have been- in 65 they had to play catch up, then when the S197 came out, they did again...flipside, without the camaro the 2015 would never have got IRS... (personally, not a fan of the 2015, but love the 05-09...we have three of them)

 

did read gm was donating labor and materials to properly restore all seven of the cars- surprising as one of them was upside down after a 30 foot drop, with a section of floor and another car sitting on the wheels you could see sticking out of the mud...basically they will be building a new car from scratch on that one...

 

Tim

Edited February 23, 2014 by ford4v429