More ignition issues

[Thunderscrash 10]

Midlife helped a lot with splicing the new pigtail in. But that didn't quit fix my problem. The reason I first dug into the wiring was because I couldn't start my car and turn it off with the key. In order to start it I had to jump a wire from the + on the coil to the + on the battery. Now I have replaced the entire underdash harness (it was a mangled mess and I thought it was my issue) and I still have the same issue. The car will crank forever but will not fire unless I jump from the coil to the battery.

 

I do have another engine bay harness that I'm going to put in and see if that fixes the issue and I just got my large color wire diagram so I can start messing around but I am wondering if anyone has any idea what it could be before I get too far.

 

Once again in simple form. My car will crank all day but will not turn over unless I have a wire from the + coil to the + battery. Any suggestions where to start?

[Burn 14]

So, it will crank, but no spark? And when you're cranking you can put a jumper from the Positive post on the coil to the Positive post of the battery and it will then start and run? What happens when its running and you remove the jumper?

 

It sounds like a starter solenoid or possibly some wires not connected right under the hood. Can you post pix's of the solenoid and how you have it wired?

 

Also, have you ever had the car running?

[magician 13]

If you got a tach harness and no tach,you must jump the tach plug at the dash. It will cause this exact symptom.

[Thunderscrash 10]

Non tach car and non tach harness. I can post pictures tomorrow evening. The car will crank without the jumper. I connect the jumper with the key in the off position and then the car will fire. I have had the car running but only with a jumper since I bought it. With the jumper in place the car will start and run I've even driven it down the street like this but once the jumper is removed, the car dies.

[Wycked69 20]

Do you have a set of 69 mustang wire diagrams ?

 

Its obvious you are not getting voltage to your coil with the key in the "ON" position and possibly not in the "Start" Position as well.

 

Get a set of these: http://www.cjponyparts.com/wiring-diagram-color-codes-and-routing-1969/p/BKW5/ or these http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-pro-wiring-diagram-manual-large-format-1964-1973/p/BKPW-V/ or these http://www.cjponyparts.com/electrical-assembly-manual-1969/p/BKAM28/

 

Also get an electrical meter, and come back to us.

[danno 128]

Is your car a 69 or 70? There are small diferences. The wires from the key switch to the ignition do not go through the underhood wire harness, so that is not your problem. There is a seperate small "ignition" harness that connects between your underdash harness and the coil. When it is running, do your oil pressure and temperature gauges work? I am guessing they do, so the connection to the underdash and ignition harness is fine.

 

As Wycked said, get a voltmeter, that will help to investigate. You either have a bad ignition switch or a bad ignition harness. My money is on a bad wire in the ignition harness. The ignition wire is different between a 69 and 70, so all I know about is the 69. Which do you have?

[det0326 179]

Ditto on Wycked and Danno reply. If you have a original 69 harness

Prayers1 posted a partial diagram that shows the ignition circuit .

Here is the link to it. It is post 12 I think

 

http://www.1969stang.com/mustang/forum/showthread.php?t=14352&page=2

[Thunderscrash 10]

My car is a 69. I just bought one of the enlarged color wire diagrams off ebay. I just haven't had the chance to trace anything out yet as the car is at my buddies house. I was unaware that there was a separate harness for the coil. I just replaced my ignition switch and pigtail with a scott drake one so I'm pretty confident that's not the issue. And the gauges are currently out of the car but it sounds like the "small harness" you reference is this?

 

http://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-gauge-feed-wire-small-block-to-firewall-1969-1970/p/WGF5D/

 

If this is that harness, I believe the red and green striped wire should go to the +coil is that correct? I'm goin to my friends place tomorrow and I'll have some time to mess with it.

[Midlife 814]

My car is a 69. I just bought one of the enlarged color wire diagrams off ebay. I just haven't had the chance to trace anything out yet as the car is at my buddies house. I was unaware that there was a separate harness for the coil. I just replaced my ignition switch and pigtail with a scott drake one so I'm pretty confident that's not the issue. And the gauges are currently out of the car but it sounds like the "small harness" you reference is this?

 

http://www.cjponyparts.com/engine-gauge-feed-wire-small-block-to-firewall-1969-1970/p/WGF5D/

 

If this is that harness, I believe the red and green striped wire should go to the +coil is that correct? I'm goin to my friends place tomorrow and I'll have some time to mess with it.

 

That is correct.

[Thunderscrash 10]

Connecting that wire did not do the trick. I'm still having the same issue of no spark without that jumper. I forgot to take a picture of the solenoid but I will take one next time I'm over there. I replaced that small harness not long ago since it wasn't present when I bought the car so I don't think its old wires.

 

As of now, I have the pink resister wire from the ignition pigtail, a red wire from the distributor, and the red/ green wire on the +coil. And I have a blue from the distributor on the -coil. Is this correct?

 

My gut feeling is that there is an issue with the engine harness, the one that has the headlights and all in it. Are you guys sure that has nothing to do with it? The entire wiring in the car is a mess I'm going to replace that harness either way but I didn't know if that could be my problem.

[Thunderscrash 10]

After looking at the diagram that det0326 posted, it looks like the brown wire (262) from the solenoid runs through the headlight harness, through the big square block on the fire wall and connects to the small harness becoming wire 16a (pink resister wire?) and travels out to the coil. If that wire (262) is damaged that could be my issue right? I'm going back Sunday and I'm going to replace that headlight harness to see if that's my problem.

[Wycked69 20]

You are just "guessing" at your problems. You've asked for help but unless you follow our instructions, you are just guessing. Get a VM and a set of diagrams and we will walk you through what and how to check.

 

The brown wire you are referring to on the solenoid gets its voltage from the + side of the solenoid ONLY when the solenoid is energized ( ON ) Its sole purpose is to supply a direct 12V (through the ignition) to the coil ONLY when the key is in the START position. (when the key returns to the "ON" position and the solenoid is dis-engaged, no voltage is supplied to the coil by this wire)

 

The red/blue wire on the solenoid is what energizes ( turns ON ) the solenoid when the key is on the START position

Edited November 9, 2013 by Wycked69

[det0326 179]

when you try to crank the car with out the jumper on it does it sound like it is trying to fire up as long as your holding the switch on start position but dies when you let it go to the run position. If everything is connected normally and it never seems like it even hits a lick at all then it would be my guess that the three prong plug is not making good connection or the wire going to the distributor from the three prong plug has an open condition. Like everyone said though you need a volt/ohm meter to test for this condition, but this would be a good place to start.

[Thunderscrash 10]

I bought a volt meter but I also replaced the engine wiring harness. The car now fires with starter fluid and no jumper. I believe the fuel pump went as I can't keep the car running. There were some wires that were cut in the old harness but I think my main problem was the wires from the distributor to the coil. I have a green or maybe blue wire and a red wire that were connected to either side of the coil. My buddy noticed this and placed both wires to the -coil and She fired up.

 

I appreciate all the help and I didn't mean to ignore anyone's input. I was merely trying to get the issues fixed and thought I saw a possible solution.

[Burn 14]

Good to hear the new harness fixed the issue and good luck getting it running. Fuel pumps are easy to replace. While you're at it you might as well replace the fuel filter too. They're cheap.

[Thunderscrash 10]

Well I thought my issue was solved but I went to start the car again today (first time since my last post) and again there is no spark. First I tried to use that jumper from the coil to battery but that does not work. The car will crank but no start.

 

I did buy a volt meter and I verified that with the key in the "on" position I have 12v through the harness and to the coil (on the pink resistor wire). The coil is brand new so is the distributor cap and rotor. I've read a few things on google but I really don't know where to go from here.

[magician 13]

Change the condenser and recheck the point gap.assuming you have a stock distributor.two wires to the same side of the coil don't sound right. Where does the wire from the distributor go?

[Thunderscrash 10]

No I don't have a stock distributor, sorry I should have mentioned that. I have an accel 51201s distributor. It is a breaker less distributor with an external coil. There are 2 wires that come off the distributor. A red wire and a greenish/blueish wire.

 

After placing both wires on the -coil I was able to get the car to fire for a moment off starter fluid. I thought I had a fuel problem but I installed a clear fuel filter and I have verified I have fuel.

 

I plan to replace the distributor with an hei unit but I don't want to add another veriable into the equation.

[det0326 179]

Well I thought my issue was solved but I went to start the car again today (first time since my last post) and again there is no spark. First I tried to use that jumper from the coil to battery but that does not work. The car will crank but no start.

 

I did buy a volt meter and I verified that with the key in the "on" position I have 12v through the harness and to the coil (on the pink resistor wire). The coil is brand new so is the distributor cap and rotor. I've read a few things on google but I really don't know where to go from here.

 

If you have 12 volts to the coil your problem would have to be from the coil to the dizzy or a problem with the dizzy module. Don't assume either that

just because the coil is new that there is not a problem with it. Change it out if possible to eliminate it. My money would be on the distributor

module though.

Dave

[magician 13]

Not familiar with that dizzy... I would assume one wire is for 12 volts and the other goes to the coil. check with Accel for Which one is which. Think twice before switching to hei...the full size ones are aggravating with factory AC.

[Thunderscrash 10]

Thanks Dave and magician I'll give accel a call after the holidays and see what they say. I've tried googling the distributor but I can't find any info on it. I had to call accel just to get the part numbers for the cap and rotor I couldn't even get it from pep boys or autozone.

[FordRacing 10]

Hope this helps….

 

Just a thought when you verified 12volt with ignition "on" what did you use for a ground on the tester?

 

According to this PDF (below) the red wire goes to the +coil and the green wire goes to the -Coil

 

Module Part number is 35366

 

http://www.catalograck.com/ImgVD/ACL/61_61V_51E_51S_68E.pdf

Edited November 28, 2013 by FordRacing

[Thunderscrash 10]

Thanks a Lot Fordracing, that is going to help a ton.

[FordRacing 10]

Hopefully you can get your problem fixed, glad it helps.

[det0326 179]

After looking at the diagram that Fordracing posted (very good info.) I understand more about this dizzy. Thunderscrash you probably already

realize this too, but just my .02. The red wire that connects to the + side of dizzy is just the 12 volt supply to the dizzy module to operate the solid states. So if you have not changed out the stock resistor wire you will have to do this if you stay with this dizzy because it needs a full 12 volt supply and the stock resistor wire will not supply enough current.

Dave