What did you do to/for your Mustang today?

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

 

 

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3 hours ago, Cantedvalve said:

... Hopefully it is my familiarity with this engine that made me miss/skip something stupid and cause this headache.

Yep. One of my mistakes was firing order. The old 280H had the 289/302 firing order and that is what I kept using on the new 280H cam. The engine ran poorly, 4 black plugs 4 white plugs. Exhaust port temps varied greatly. Helps to read the instructions that came with the new cam and the new firing order.

[Cantedvalve 128]

Well, I fixed it... I don't know how or what, but I fixed it.  I reassembled everything, did the plug wires last.  Fired right up, and it was dead on 0 TDC.  Advanced it 10 BTDC, and drove it.  I still don't know what I had wrong, but its right now.  Still have a healthy list of crap to do:  

• Carburetor needs help badly.  Not sure what is wrong with it, but given it was built for a blow through application, I might just replace it.  Doesn't have a choke on it, which I need if I am going to drive this in colder weather (would have helped today too).  It's hesitating on throttle in, and stalling after hard acceleration.
• Valvetrain (I think) is noisy.  I went with hydraulic roller rockers.  Lots of clackity clackity.  I took the time to check preload for the first time in my life.  I even got shims and shimmed a few of the rockers because it looked like I had too much preload.
• I am leaking oil really really badly from (i think) the front crank seal.  I JUST replaced it today.  It was being slung on the inner fenders, so its something that is rotating.
• Stock gauge said low oil pressure.  New standard volume pump.  Not sure why it would have low oil pressure out of the box.  I have the old pump (high volume).  I could try that... not sure it will help.  If it is low, it would explain the valvetrain noise.

So I have that stuff to deal with... but not today... I'm pooped.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Noticing the low oil pressure now, did you prime the oil pump with a drill prior to starting the motor?  Is it the stock oil pressure gauge?  If so, I've had problems with some oil pressure sending units causing a low reading on the gauge.  I've had best luck with Standard brand oil pressure sending units.  The Motorcraft brand sending units being sold for these cars caused my stock gauge to indicate low pressure when a mechanical gauge would show 55-60 psi.  If you have a mechanical gauge it might be worth quickly connecting it to check the oil pressure before going further.

With the lifters clattering is the top end oiling okay?

[Cantedvalve 128]

@1969_Mach1  I did prime the system... all over the garage floor.  Yup, I left out a galley plug behind the fuel pump.  Lost a quart of oil that way.  Added another back in.

I do have a mechanical gauge, and I plan to hook it up tomorrow. 

I have no idea if the top end is getting oil... that would require me to take the valve covers off.  I guess I can add that to the list.  I did use assembly lobe on both ends of the rocker arm.

I am running a Motorcraft sending unit.  I'll check out Standard brand.

The thing that is bothering me the most at the moment is the stinking oil leak.  I have no idea what is going on there.  I do have another seal though.

[Cantedvalve 128]

Okay. It’s the front crank seal leaking. A lot. And the damper is slinging it. I did not (have never) use sealant on the seal. I will do that this time. When I test fit the seal to the damper, there is no gap, but it’s not exactly snug. I’ve never paid too much attention to it, so I don’t know how it should fit. The damper is not worn in any way.

think I’m good to go here?

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

If its the damper seal that is leaking, your going to have to remove the cover and replace it. If its the oil pan seal, then you can just lower the pan and replace or reseal the gasket.

 

[1969_Mach1 333]

Sealant will not help on a rotating part.  If it's leaking between the damper and seal there is something wrong.  Did you accidentally get a seal for use with a repair sleeve?  I'd get another seal, maybe a different brand from a different source.  It should fit slightly snug on the damper.  I'm not familiar with Clevelands, but, make certain the timing cover is centered on the damper.

[1969_Mach1 333]

1 minute ago, 69ShelbyGT350H said:

If its the damper seal that is leaking, your going to have to remove the cover and replace it. If its the oil pan seal, then you can just lower the pan and replace or reseal the gasket.

 

Yeah, the early Windsor timing chain covers were like.  On later model and replacement timing covers the front crank seal installs from the front not the back.  It's worth the upgrade unless you want the original look.  But, I think he is working with a Cleveland motor.

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

This one then? I am not familiar with the Cleveland and got the image from google Cleveland search. Guess its not giving proper results, but the damper seal is in the same place.  :-)

 

[Cantedvalve 128]

Cleveland timing covers are stamped sheet metal.  I think mine was leaking from between the seal and the cover... but its impossible to tell now.  I cant imaging an oil pan gasket puking that much oil onto the damper.  I know it was on the damper because it was slung everywhere.  It wasn't a valve cover because it didn't get on the headers and smoke.  I suppose it COULD be the timing cover gasket, but like I said, it was a lot and it got onto the balancer. Only thing that really makes sense is the seal.

Sealant is for the seal to cover area.  That doesn't turn (if it does, you have bigger issues).

The seal came out of a Felpro kit.  I didn't order one for use with a sleeve.

I got one from Oreilly's this time - National brand.  It gripped the balancer hub better than the previous one.  I am hopeful.

Here is a picture of a crud covered 351C timing cover.  it's as flat as it looks, with only a couple stamped thread bosses and the flanges for the crank seal and oil pan seal.

 

[RogerC 136]

Modified clutch & brake pedals. Have to trim the screws yet.

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

11 hours ago, 1969_Mach1 said:

Yeah, the early Windsor timing chain covers were like.  On later model and replacement timing covers the front crank seal installs from the front not the back.  It's worth the upgrade unless you want the original look.  But, I think he is working with a Cleveland motor.

I know he is working with a Cleveland and posted as such before. I also stated I am not familiar with the Cleveland as I am the Windsor. I am not sure why you have to be concerned with the actual look of the cover when the issue at hand is the leaking seal, and that is all I was trying to point out. But as you seem to know all this better than I do, I will step aside and stop making incorrect comments. Its not the first time you have criticized my comments and I doubt it will be last unless I just stop posting on this forum. So best to all of you!

[Cantedvalve 128]

Got the seal installed.  I put RTV on the back of the seal where it mates to the timing cover.  Those seals are not easy to install when the cover is in the car.

I'll get the radiator back in the car tomorrow... just in time for my new carburetor!

[Cantedvalve 128]

New carb is here. I went with a Summit 8600VS. I’ve heard way too much good things about them not to try it. So far I’m impressed with caveats. The feed line they give you is junk. Mine didn’t line up with both ports. Second, the port on the rear for PVC or brake booster has a plug in it... that I can’t get out.  It was wet tested and it is free of debris, so it’s good to go. 

[Mike65 475]

53 minutes ago, Cantedvalve said:

New carb is here. I went with a Summit 8600VS. I’ve heard way too much good things about them not to try it. So far I’m impressed with caveats. The feed line they give you is junk. Mine didn’t line up with both ports. Second, the port on the rear for PVC or brake booster has a plug in it... that I can’t get out.  It was wet tested and it is free of debris, so it’s good to go. 

Let us know how it works I am thinking of possibly getting the 8500VS for my 5.0.

[Cantedvalve 128]

Well, I got the car back together and took it for a quick spin.  The carb needs some fine tuning (I did none), but it worked well for out of the box.  I did have a small issue...  the throttle wouldn't return to closed completely.  I could push it back without much force, but it wouldn't go on its own.  I didn't investigate it yet.

I did find out that the oil leak I thought I had fixed isn't fixed... it looks like it is the oil pan gasket... front edge.  Looks like I get to do that... again...

[Midlife 814]

So what was the problem with timing? 

[Cantedvalve 128]

The more I think about it, the more I think I have something more than just a leaky oil pan gasket.  I stuck my head under the car and watched the oil leak... its coming out pretty fast... almost like it was under pressure.  Its leaking a LOT.  I have to drop the pan to do the gasket anyway... the only thing I can think it might be is that the oil pump isn't tight or the gasket blew out?  Anyone have any other ideas?

[Cantedvalve 128]

2 minutes ago, Midlife said:

So what was the problem with timing? 

I really don't know.  I replaced the timing set.  The old timing set was installed correctly, so that wasn't it.  When I reinstalled everything, I went step by step in my rebuild book.  Fired it up, and it ran great.  If I had to guess, I would go with plug wires out of order.

[1969_Mach1 333]

14 hours ago, Cantedvalve said:

The more I think about it, the more I think I have something more than just a leaky oil pan gasket.  I stuck my head under the car and watched the oil leak... its coming out pretty fast... almost like it was under pressure.  Its leaking a LOT.  I have to drop the pan to do the gasket anyway... the only thing I can think it might be is that the oil pump isn't tight or the gasket blew out?  Anyone have any other ideas?

If the oil pump is leaking where is attaches to the block, it still should not cause an external leak.  What about leaking where the oil pressure sender attaches to the block?  Or the oil filter?  If it's not those or the timing cover seal, the only item remaining in that area is the front end seal portion of the oil pan gasket.  Make certain the leak isn't running down from further above.

[Mike65 475]

Make sure the "O" ring is ion the distributor & it is not leaking from there & running down like 1969_Mach1 stated.

[Cantedvalve 128]

I stuck my head under the car last night while the boy started it up.  I had previously cleaned up what had already leaked.  I could see the oil seeping from the passenger front corner of the oil pan, down the front lip of the oil pan to the lowest spot.  Oil pressure sender is at the back of the engine.  Distributor has its o ring and is bone dry, fuel pump I checked as well and it is fine.  I even tried tightening up the oil pan bolts and that didnt help.

I have a new oil pan, gaskets, and bolts on order.  I'll pull things apart tonight and see what's up.

[Cantedvalve 128]

Got the new oil pan. Summit part. Looks good, except the rails aren’t flat. The inside of the rails are flat, but the outsides are not close. I don’t know it that is by design or not.  I’ll probably try to flatten them out at least a little bit.

[Cantedvalve 128]

We have a surface plate at work... really big, really flat granite table used for quality measurements of the parts we produce.  I put it on that.  I used a dead blow hammer and got the flange as flat as they can possibly be.  Jim is happy now.

[Cantedvalve 128]

The boy made me paint it blue....