1970 Grabber Green Project

[RPM 1,190]

That's a very nice perk you have there Mike, and it's wise to put the over spray to good use. As usual, your tools look better than my car.

[Grabber70Mach 107]

That looks nice Mike.

[Mach427 10]

That colour actually looks pretty good for waste powder. The shop I work in has been blowing a lot of yellow, black, grey and red lately resulting in more of a hue resembling a puss-like yellow-green-brown... not very attractive.

 

In the 25 years I have been there (from the ground up) we have only had two customers have their orders done with free waste powder. Depending on the work load, we throw out between 300 to 600 pounds a week. 

 

Thanks for the update. I am thoroughly impressed with the direction you are going with your Mustang and your inspiring workmanship.

 

Allan

[latoracing 256]

Thanks everyone for the compliments, yet again.

 

It is a great benefit to be able to bring parts in and have them coated. I suppose a little "reward" for helping getting the oven built and everything else set up for the company should have a little perk. I have also been with a company that was started from little of nothing and have stuck around to see it grow.

[latoracing 256]

Have been contemplating the door bar arrangement that I might get installed in this thing some day. As I have looked at this area I got to thinking I might need to get some door panels to check the fit as more tubes are going in the car. This was a standard interior car, but I thought I'd spruce up the area a little.

 

 

TMI is the manufacture, they look pretty nice, except for the chrome tidbits that are on the window felt and the door lock. That will have to be changed as the NO CHROME rule will be in effect throughout. I didn't order any trim, panel inserts or curtiocy lights (wood and more chrome, yuck) will have to make all that stuff, oh not that... who knows, might get them re-upostered. Might even do some brushed stainless, the wheels are a turning :)

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

i have always wanted to do carbon fiber in the door panels ,with the stainless trim that would look great

[Grabber70Mach 107]

Check with MTF I think they already have carbon fiber door inserts.

[latoracing 256]

As I have been looking at my build for a while, not making any progress at all. I have been shopping for new and interesting (can you say EXPENSIVE) parts. One of the main reasons I built my rotisserie was to be able to construct some custom 4-2-1 headers and oval exhaust. When you go custom, you really do go custom as nothing would bolt right up on my car after some of the mods I have made. 

 

I started looking for header bends, flanges, collectors and all the associated pieces parts to make the connection from my heads to the tail pipes. I have never designed headers, but have read a bunch about them and some of their pro's and cons with sizing. I am not one for guessing, so I contact two different header manufactures who deal with stainless steel components to get some insight and some design specs. (http://www.burnsstainless.com and http://www.stainlessheaders.com/index.aspx) I haven't herd back from Stainless headers yet, but I did hear from Burns, who is extremely helpful. In order to properly size my header primary tubes, mid tubes, collectors... all the lengths of the tubes... on and on and on... I needed to supply all the info for my engine to them. Well, I have a set of AFR 205r heads, the end, but I do know what I am wanting as far as most of the specifics for the engine.

 

One of the main components Burns was asking for was cam shaft specifications,  so I email several different cam shaft grinders to get a cam recommendation. As I received E-mails from a few different vendors the specifications look similar as far as lift, duration but the C/L varied a little. from 108 to 110. The one I like so far is a solid roller from Bullet Cams, not too crazy of a profile that will be helpful in making some torque.

 

GRIND FW275/280R110.5+4.5

MASTERS R275/3904 R280/3907
DUR @ 243/245
LIFT .625/.625
LSA 110.5
INT C/L 106
OVERLAP @ .050 23DEG'S
USE LRR4713 LIFTERS OR THE LRR5436

 

This will be used in a 4.125" bore 4" stroke 10.5:1 Dart block with a 9.5" deck (427CI)

 

The other cam I thought I'd like was from Comp, but I will not use them as the Email I received from Jonathan (the rep. I got stuck with) was not exactly nice, but quite the smart @#$. But that's ok. 

 

Having the cam info forwarded to Burns, I have information and pricing (minus some V band couplings for the collectors) for what my headers should comprise of...

 

All 304 SS, tubing to be all 16ga

3/8" thick header flanges

1.75" primary 24" long

1.75" to 2" mid pipes to be 12" long (36" total pipe length)

2" to 2.375 to 3" collectors with V band clamps instead of bolt flanges. 

 

They are PROUD of their products, as the total for just headers (this is for me to fit and weld now, not complete bolt ons) was a little under $1,800.00 (ouch...).  Stainless headers prices are a little bit cheaper, but not much different when looking on line as I bet there won't be a $200.00 difference between the two. Between the exhaust, and the intake (that will be another story for another time)  I'm gonna have to do a bunch of side work LOL. I need to get back to work on it, it is awful dusty :)

[RPM 1,190]

So ya got shamed into posting an update eh? Just yanking your chain Mike and I think you'll have a killer combo there. I do believe you have a good plan for the headers.  I too looked into StainlessHeaders.com and was floored by the sticker shock. One thing I'm sure of is those headers you build will be a work of art! I can't wait for the updates.

[MustangBobby 28]

You can do door bars like Agent 47 did with their Harbinger.

 

 

 

http://a-47.com/galleries/012%20X2%20Detail/fullsize/InteriorRace.jp

 

http://a-47.com/galleries/012%20X2%20Detail/fullsize/InteriorStreet.jpg

[latoracing 256]

You can do door bars like Agent 47 did with their Harbinger.

 

 

 

http://a-47.com/galleries/012%20X2%20Detail/fullsize/InteriorRace.jp

 

http://a-47.com/galleries/012%20X2%20Detail/fullsize/InteriorStreet.jpg

 

Thanks for the links. Those Agent 47 cars are bad, and I have looked closely at their setup. The link you posted is a little different than what I have seen on some of their other builds. I will be doing something similar as I want to be able to get in and out of the car without crawling over a bunch of bars. 

 

I also like their hood design, except that it hinges on the radiator support.

[latoracing 256]

After looking around at some other header part suppliers, (still haven't heard from Stainless Steel Headers yet) I placed my order a few weeks back with...

 

 

a local company who build exhaust parts for a lot of NASCAR teams, pro stock, GT cars ect. Being local is nice if I happen to need some more tubing or bends, plus it is good for local economy. My box of components contain enough parts (hopefully) to build my 4-2-1 304 / 321 St. Steel headers. I ordered 12 ea 1 2/4" 180 degree bends, 4ea 1 3/4" to 2" transitions, 4ea 2" 45 degree bends and 2ea 2" to 3 1/2" x 2 3/4" (basically 3" round) slip collectors. The header flanges are laser cut out of 3/8" 304 and surfaced for a nice flat gasket sealing area.

 

This is basically one header, some assembly required

 

 

The fabled parts are very nice, and  the slip fit areas are extremely nice. They had better, they weren't cheap. A quick glimpse of what is to come...

 

 

I have a few other pieces of the puzzle to put in place before I get to start on these, but I am looking forward to building something tedious.

[RPM 1,190]

Damn! I've been waiting for this like a kid for waiting for Christmas. This thread is finally going to get good. (just kidding there Mike) I expect you to take 2 weeks off work and work on these super cool headers 10-12 hours a day, while posting constant updates! Heck, you'd think this was my project with all this babble. Sorry, carry on.

[Footcutter11 23]

Nice!

[latoracing 256]

Everyone probably knows by now that I probably a little OCD with certain things, well, with everything. As I am finally finishing up that '66 vert (YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!) I have been looking at the bottom of my car across the shop for way to long. I kept thinking that the block / trans. was sitting in the car crooked, like the tail shaft area was closer to the driver's side. Look closely at the tail shaft...

 

 

After measuring several times, it was true. The trans was sitting 1" out of center, due to the stock transmission hole location. I know it probably doesn't matter as TKO's have been stuffed in these cars many times before, and they work fine. I can't stand it, so I pulled the trans out and removed the reinforcement ring off the bottom of my new floor pan.

 

 

Drawing a few lines, and taking a few measurements, I figured I could cut the area out and basically flip the part I removed, and weld it back in. So I laid out the cutlines to leave an inch more on one side and effectively center the hole in the tunnel once it was inverted. A little cutting, some minor tweaking, some tacks and a little hammering everything was welded back in place, just like it never happened.

 

 

Now my driveline will be straight in the car, and it won't drive me nuts. The down side now is I have to fix my trans mount, and will have to have some kind of offset shifter, but that's the price you pay when you're strange. I have been looking at nice, clean, freshly painted underpinnings for too long. My project is filthy and in need of some serious grinding of welds. I'll get the ring reinstalled and do a little cleaning up. It's nice to be working on it again :)

[RPM 1,190]

but that's the price you pay when you're strange. 

 

I know I'd have done the same thing Mike. I'm sure it would've bugged you forever if you had not fixed it. I believe there are more folks out there like you than you might think.

[latoracing 256]

Ever play with Lego's when you were a kid? My brother and sisters and I used to build all kinds of things with them. They were a bunch of fun. I still like to play with them, but I got a new set today, to help with the header modeling.

 

 

Ice Engine Works came out with these blocks several years ago, and I have always wanted to try them out. I didn't buy a kit, just the add on blocks and some starter plugs. These blocks are the same 3" Center Line Radius (CLR) as my U bends. I was messing around and stuck that mess together in like 20 minutes. The blocks just snap together, and are quite secure. They have little alignment marks on them for reference and alignment.

 

 

Each block represents 1" to help make equal  length headers, or help with buying materials.  

Once it is all put together, you just transfer the dimensions to metal and replace the blocks with tube. 

 

I am still in need of a few more pieces of my puzzle, but this will hopefully help me not waste too much stainless. 

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

That is sweet ! I could see them being used for making roll cages also 

[RPM 1,190]

Dude, where's the link for them? You keeping good info from your buds? C'mon man. Those look like a real time saver Mike. That header flange looks like a work of art!

[latoracing 256]

http://www.icengineworks.com

 

They have a bunch of different sizes, but hold your breath when you see the prices.

 

I ordered my add on blocks through Summit, they are a little cheaper.  I could have bought a NICE set of headers for what these plastic bits set me back. 

 

I was thinking of the roll bar modeling as well Ridge, the CLR will be a little small, but should give a little idea on bend placement. I hopefully will be able to use these more than once, even though they might save enough time for just this set. Well see

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

Just bolt those in the car the way they are that orange would make cool looking headers ,although it would look like orange juice after a couple of minutes .

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

http://www.icengineworks.com

 

They have a bunch of different sizes, but hold your breath when you see the prices.

 

I ordered my add on blocks through Summit, they are a little cheaper.  I could have bought a NICE set of headers for what these plastic bits set me back. 

 

I was thinking of the roll bar modeling as well Ridge, the CLR will be a little small, but should give a little idea on bend placement. I hopefully will be able to use these more than once, even though they might save enough time for just this set. Well see

Yeah ,bend placement and getting a proper degree on the bend .Sometimes getting that degree is a bit hard. Although i keep a few bends in different degrees around for that purpose .

[latoracing 256]

In order to get ready to plan for the header routing I have to put all kinds of stuff in the way. I have been messing with this Unisteer rack off and on for a few days and finally got it put on the car. It required a little trimming and a few modifications to fit. It does now after taking it on and off a dozen times, not quite a "bolt on" but close. I also had to have it in place to get dimensions for my oil pan since nothing off the shelf will fit now.

 

 

I had Shaun at SoT check the dimensions on a Canton pan he had in stock, the sump was about 1" too far back, so I had to go custom. I had called and talked to Armando at Armando's Racing Oil Pans http://www.aroilpans.com to fix me up with a custom built unit. I sent them the specifics of my build along with some pictures and measurements of my situation. Looking at the rack to rail clearance might end up being a little tight.

 

 

If I have to shim the rack up a little to clear, I will. I really do not want to move the motor back up any and mess up my driveline angle. We'll see once the pan gets here.

 

I have a few (as in hundreds) areas to tidy up, like my E-Brake retrofit. It is soooo much easier to install stuff on the bottom of the car when it is sideways. I had it fitting fairly well way back when, so all I had to do was sand and prep the area for welding. Screwed it in place and melted some metal together.

 

 

 

There is one more bracket to install but I need to have a bunch of other items in place to affix that. It holds the brake cables in place, another item to be checked off ...

 

Might work on the A pillar to cage tie ins, haven't made much of anything lately, got that Itch...

[Rustang 11]

That header fitting kit looks like it would make life a whole lot easier.

 

Maybe if I was making 3 or 4 sets of headers the cost would make sense...Or turbos, I suppose.

[latoracing 256]

That header fitting kit looks like it would make life a whole lot easier.

 

Maybe if I was making 3 or 4 sets of headers the cost would make sense...Or turbos, I suppose.

 

Hopefully I will be able to put the blocks to use again in the future. I do know a few people who drag race and they change up their rides quite often. I look at it as another tool. None of this make sense when you actually think about it lol.