Alignment Issues and Questions

[Boogerschnot 12]

I built the front suspension about a year ago, had it aligned to the shelby drop spec's on the daze cars website, which proved a little difficult because the camber really didnt want to be set to 0. The closest we got it was around -1* on both sides with the camber locking plates.

 

Yesterday I had it re-aligned because I could totally see that the car was sitting knee knocked with way to much camber and it had been feeling really floaty and skiddish on the road. Every bump or ridge in the road felt horrible and would throw the car around alot. Plus I knew that after a year of driving the new bushings were probably starting to wear and had changed up the alignment.

 

Well it did. Here are my specs from alignment

 

Camber -1.6 left -1.5 right

caster 2.2 left 2.4 right before was .4 left and -.9right yuck

Toe .2* left .21 right before was -.37 on both sides

 

Cross caber is -.1

cross caster -.2*

total toe is .41*

 

I posted this on another forum and thought "I should put it on the 69-70 specific forum, duhh)

 

So hopefully that all makes sense. The problem I have and have had for a while is that when I turn full right my left front tire scrubs the inside of the bottom of the valance. You can visibly see that the wheel is foward in the wheel well but it seems that way on both sides. And another thing is that it took two different type locking camber plates to get the same measurement on both sides.

 

PO must have gotten hit at some point and threw everything off. Here are a couple of pics.

 

 

[Boogerschnot 12]

So the question is: Is the negative camber going to cause any problems other than me going through tires quicker than normal? And has anyone else had problems with the wheel rubbing with the 245-45 front tire?

 

I forgot to add that I cut a half coil off the front springs plus the shelby drop to get this ride height.

 

Ive thought about taking a cut off wheel and maybe a dolly and hammer to the inner valance to give it a little more room. not too sure yet.

 

But the car does drive straight and feels a lot more solid on the road after the alignment.

[Powershift 19]

I suspect with -1.5 Camber, or more, your main concern will be tire wear.

 

As far as tire rub.... are you running spacers with those late model wheels? I know late model wheels don't have the same offset as our early cars.

 

 

BTW When you say you built the suspension... does that mean you engineered the parts, or you built it up with aftermarket items?

[Boogerschnot 12]

I replaced the front suspension with open tracker parts, upper and lower arms, 1 inch sway bar, roller spring perches, lower eccentrics, stock springs cut 1/4 coil, shelby drop, and 1.5 inch spacers up front 1.25 in the back.

[rwcstang 201]

sucks, same thing happened to me, so i adjusted the strut bar and it finally cleared.

[Boogerschnot 12]

But didnt that put your caster way off?

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

shim your upper control arms to get more caster (and then back off the strut rods) to give your wheel more clearance to the front valance. this will also impact your camber (can also shim the upper control arm for camber purposes).

[Boogerschnot 12]

That seems to be what everyone is suggesting even though shims were not required for our cars in stock form. I think it has to do with the shelby drop.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

That seems to be what everyone is suggesting even though shims were not required for our cars in stock form. I think it has to do with the shelby drop.

 

sorry didn't see people had suggested the shims...

 

i've been working on my alignment as well. the arning drop definately moved the control arm forward which doesn't help. couple that with the factory settings of 0 caster and you need a reasonable amount of adjustment.

 

when i rebuilt my upper control arms, i rotated the shaft half turn off center to offset it slightly. i didn't go more than that because of the grease ports getting too close to the tower.

 

i ended up using two 1/8" shims on the front hole of the upper control arm. my camber is currently about -0.625 degrees along with about 3.12 degrees of caster.

[RPM 1,190]

That seems to be what everyone is suggesting even though shims were not required for our cars in stock form. I think it has to do with the shelby drop.

 

Really? If shims were not oem, where did all the shims come from on the early Mustangs my brothers and I have owned? None of them had the Shelby drop, I did the drop on my current 69 and the template I used dropped the holes vertical, not at 90* and forward. If alignment shops added the shims on every Mustang for correct specs, maybe the factory should have included them.

[stangnet33 88]

Don't read into this wrong but with this style of front ends if you have to start adding shims to the upper control arms this may be hiding something like slightly collapsing or wrong position of your shock/coil tower(s). Would also suggest bent or worn arms but sounds like you have new. Not confirming this is your problem. When I first got my stang many moons ago that's what I found with it, I couldn't get the camber close at all. So I shimed at first and then tried spreading the towers a bit and got some good improvement. Never did finish as thats about the time I took it in for a paint job :001_unsure: and never really driven since. Remember the the old Hyundai Pony's(early in my mechanic career) ? When one of those came in for an alignment it was almost a given that the old porta power was going to come out to spread the towers back in place (they had the same style suspension). Just a thought and shimming is a easier fix.

[Boogerschnot 12]

Yea, I know the towers had some issues due to the stress cracks at the rear, but they were small and weld-able. I added a monte carlo bar and a one piece shock tower brace to hold her together. I did have to set the front end on stands to spread the towers though to get the bar in. I kind of figure the front might be a little off, but it seems the same on both ends and I do see where it looks like someone made a repair of the strut braces where the rod attaches to the rad support and crossmember. It doesnt bother me though, the car has allways driven straight and sat level. Just the caster thats a pain in the butt and rubbing on the front end.

[Boogerschnot 12]

Really? If shims were not oem, where did all the shims come from on the early Mustangs my brothers and I have owned? None of them had the Shelby drop, I did the drop on my current 69 and the template I used dropped the holes vertical, not at 90* and forward. If alignment shops added the shims on every Mustang for correct specs, maybe the factory should have included them.

 

 

Im not too sure if you are trying to argue with me or agree with me, but the 69 and up models did not require shims on the upper a arms because of the lower adjustable eccentric. I got my drop template from John at opentracker and I dont think he would steer me wrong. And its not the factory's problem that alignment shop added the shims, they just didnt, and usually dont, know their ass from a hole in the ground. But thanks for the heads up, I know the shops do some shoddy things sometimes.

[RPM 1,190]

No argument at all. I'm aware that the lowers have about 3/4" adjustment for camber adjustment, but I guess seeing shims on many Mustangs made me think they were from Ford. What is it they say when you (not you Boogerschnot) assume? It's been so long I have no idea where I got my drop template. Having been an insurance auto adjuster for 18 yrs I saw plenty of crappy repairs from all kinds of shops. One of the bad things about the internet is that intent is tough to read. There should be a font for sarcasm, criticism etc.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

i used shims for caster, not camber. the op mentioned the wheel was hitting the valance and simply pulling the lower control arm forward creates issues with the valance. i've read of this complaint before which was one reason i tried to put an offset in my upper control arm.

 

someone had put one 1/8" shim in mine at some point prior to 1983. i don't know if it was common knowledge years ago to add more caster or not. i tried using no shims but it wasn't going to get me where i wanted it.

 

i put an export brace on mine and it went on with no issues.

 

i would guess for cars still wanting 0 degrees caster, with the stock upper control arm location and factory sized tires, the need for shims would be heavily reduced.

[Boogerschnot 12]

Agreed, and the want for the larger wheels and taller tires up front didnt help me out.

 

Ill try the shims as soon as i can. (Waiting to buy a house, stuck in a studio hotel for another month.) t

[Silver_69_Coupe 31]

Reviving and old thread since I have some question on this topic. Fist off did you get your issue resolved and if so how?

 

A Little about my car. 69 Coupe with adjustable strut rods. Rack and pinion steering, Shelby drop, And 1 Coil cut out of the front springs.

 

I Took it in for an alignment and the numbers came back.

 

Camber L -1.0 R -1.3

Caster L -2.0 R -2.0

Toe L +0.32 R +0.30

 

The lower control arm is pushed out as far as it will go. So Camber is at its max.

The Strut Rods were bottomed out so Caster is at its max.

Toe is fine.

 

Here my issue.

 

I shortened the adjuster on the strut rod by 3/4" (These are Home Made So my measurement may have been off.)

 

I added 1/4" Of shims to the front of the upper control arms. Front only.

 

The Camber looked like it went to the positive side when I checked it with my level but after I dove it the camber looks like it went back to needing to come out on the top more. I measured about 1/4" to far in on the top the first time now it measure about 3/16. Am I crazy thinking it may need another 1/2 to 3/4 of shims. I know lowering it so much has a major effect on this but could it really be that much. I want to get it close before I pay to have it aligned again. I do have a monte-carlo bar but it is not installed yet. It will be before I take it in again. I am thinking that it is the next priority. Any help will be very appreciated.