Borgeson Install for Beginners.....Like Me

[rangerdoc 22]

You da man! I've bookmarked this thread for next spring!

 

I thought I had read someplace that the p/s pump supplied by Borgeson will fit under the a/c compressor with no problem. I'm sure a phone call will confirm this.

[Big Secz 26]

I got the alignment done today. The steering is real stiff, at least compared to my old steering setup. There are no issues at low RPMs using the stock pump parking is still easy.

 

The wheel doesn't return to center, even if you turn the wheel slightly it stays there. I'm not sure if the system just needs to be broken in or what. I'm also wondering if when I kinked that metal return line coming out of the power steering pump, and then straightened it out, if it is still restricting the flow which may be causing some of these issues with the stiffness and the wheel not returning to center. I'm thinking and upgrade to the saginaw pump will probably be in the future.

[Cupid 10]

There are no issues at low RPMs using the stock pump parking is still easy.

 

Well that freakin' sucks...:frown: For me anyway.

 

I was one of those guys who got talked into buying the saginaw b/c the stock pumps apparently didn't work too well at low RPMs. :2guns:

[rangerdoc 22]

Well that freakin' sucks...:frown: For me anyway.

 

I was one of those guys who got talked into buying the saginaw b/c the stock pumps apparently didn't work too well at low RPMs. :2guns:

 

No, you're ok. Some other folks have had low rpm issues with the stock pump. He may just have a good pump.

 

 

In regards to the not returning to center issue...how is your alignment? IIRC if the camber isn't set right it can affect the return to center. But it could be related to the stock pump.

[Cupid 10]

^^Good point about the stock pump.

 

Big, did you have problems taking your control valve off. Mine is stuck (well with basic tools). I'll go rent a tie rod separator tonight. Wonder how much $ I can get for one of these things on ebay. :-)

[Grabber70Mach 107]

^^Good point about the stock pump.

 

Big, did you have problems taking your control valve off. Mine is stuck (well with basic tools). I'll go rent a tie rod separator tonight. Wonder how much $ I can get for one of these things on ebay. :-)

 

You want to get one that looks similar to this: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Tools-Garage-and-Equipment/Pitman-Arm-Puller/_/N-264w

 

The pickle fork will tear it apart.

[Big Secz 26]

You can use a tie rod puller, however the control vlave is no longer needed so I used a pickle fork and beat it off. It didn't do much damage at all, it just pulled the ball joint out, and considering even if you were to sell the old control valve, it would need to be rebuilt before it could be reused, so I didn't see a problem with using a pickle fork.

[erblo 10]

The wheel doesn't return to center, even if you turn the wheel slightly it stays there. I'm not sure if the system just needs to be broken in or what.

 

Big Secz - Thanks for the write up. I just finished the same swap in my '68 Cougar. You're absolutely right, this isn't an afternoon swap! I had several install issues, but only one left at this point...

 

I just got mine back from the alignment shop and I'm having the same issue with poor return to center. For my install I converted to manual steering center link, idler arm, pitman arm, and new tie rod ends. Everything seems great except for not returning to center.

 

Anyone have any ideas? I'm going to call the shop in the morning to get the alignment specs.

[Oz69fan 10]

Can recall reading on one of the forums that the issue of the steering not returning to centre is caused by using the original pump.

 

My kit arrives tomorrow, but screw using the old pump - will order the saginaw unit and wait for it to arrive before fitting everything up.

 

"Cupid" should have the definitive answer because he has the saginaw pump with the kit. Please keep us informed of how it performs.

 

Rod.

[Cupid 10]

Okay,

I'm convinced: "control valves are evil". Good Lord! I ended up removing the steering box with the pitman arm/control valve attached...which means, the centerlink had to come off as well. I don't know what a "goat rope" is or where the phrase comes from, but I think last night was the epitome of it... I wanted to save the valve for my trusty friend "eBay" so I didn't want to damage it. Once I got the entire contraption out the pullers still didn't work, neither did the forks(air or hammer).

 

I confess, I had to pull out the BFH. I love that tool! Braced it up on the vise, two whacks later, it popped out. Score!

 

Damaged the threads, but i'll bust out the Tap and Die set before I sell it.

 

My next adventure: Getting the pitman arm off the box.

[Cupid 10]

Okay, here are the facts:

I have a 70 Grande’

It has a Cleveland

It has a Vintage Air A/C aftermarket kit in it.

 

Problem 1: Borgeson does not make a Saginaw pump w/bracket that fits a Cleveland.

Problem 2: There are aftermarket brackets that fit Clevelands, but not Clevelands with A/C.

 

Possible solution: Buy a non-A/C bracket and modify it to fit with the Vintage Air Kit. In other words, I’m in over my head, but it won’t fix itself….Git-R-Done!

 

Here’s the pump kit with aftermarket billet aluminum Saginaw bracket from CVF Racing.

 

 

Step 1: Remove pulley to remove old bracket. The following is a pictorial on how to use a standard P/S puller (This is a “beginner’s threadâ€, right?)

 

 

 

These go under the lip:

 

 

Put sleeve on to hold everything in place:

 

 

 

Use wrenches to pull the pulley off

 

 

Forget this trash! Break out the impact!

 

 

Step 2: Put the bracket and pulley back on

 

 

Now for pulley installation:

 

 

Clearly the aluminum bracket is super thick. No worries, you can still get a combo wrench in to adjust the belt. This “thickness†is the primary reason I’ll have to modify the braket.

 

 

There are rear brackets as well. This will bolt into the block:

 

[Ricks 70 stang 13]

I have the saginaw pump and mine doesn't return to center. I'm hoping that someone has solved this issue.

[7tRedMach 10]

Has anyone talked to Borgeson about this steering wheel not returning to center problem? What are they saying?

[erblo 10]

Has anyone talked to Borgeson about this steering wheel not returning to center problem? What are they saying?

 

I talked to them today, they suggest getting the alignment done with 4-5 degrees positive caster.

[Cupid 10]

I talked to them today, they suggest getting the alignment done with 4-5 degrees positive caster.

 

Now, my school is not WyoTech or anything, but 5* positive camber sounds a lot like buying tires every year.... Am I wrong.?

[erblo 10]

Now, my school is not WyoTech or anything, but 5* positive camber sounds a lot like buying tires every year.... Am I wrong.?

 

Caster, not camber. I understand that caster does not affect tire wear.

[Cupid 10]

Caster, not camber. I understand that caster does not affect tire wear.

 

Oops, i'm sorry. I read it an automatically thought camber. My bad. Just know that either one will increase wear, with camber being obviously worse. Caster will make the car "rail" around the corner better.:punk: Probably worth a try, but you have to pay additional $ to re-do your alignment.

[erblo 10]

Oops, i'm sorry. I read it an automatically thought camber. My bad. Just know that either one will increase wear, with camber being obviously worse. Caster will make the car "rail" around the corner better.:punk: Probably worth a try, but you have to pay additional $ to re-do your alignment.

 

LOL, yeah, I was just thinking that I wish I had this info before paying for an alignment.

[69cobraman 10]

Now, my school is not WyoTech or anything, but 5* positive camber sounds a lot like buying tires every year.... Am I wrong.?

 

Just my 2cents, I have 2(69's) and a 03 GT. If you did the Shelby drop, I believe you also changed the caster with that procedure. Maybe a little apple to oranges kinda thing, I change the front suspension on the 03 and went from 3.6 Pos. (Ford prefers) to 5.5 Pos.and from .6 neg. camber to1.5 neg camber. You have to reset bumpster if you use a more caster. Got to keep your tie rods parallel to the LCA. Haven't seen any tire wear yet and it turns like on a rail. Forgot I also have .5 toe out.

[rangerdoc 22]

Here's a nice little chart for reference. The Shelby setting should be used if you have the Arning drop.

 

The instructions that came with my negative wedge and bumpsteer kit say to use: Camber -1/2 to 1/2, Castor +1 to +2 and Toe-in 1/32" to 1/16". For autocross settings: Camber -2 to -3, Castor +2 to +4 (a little less for manual steering) and Toe 0 to 1/16 toe-out.

 

I recently had my car set to the settings of my instructions after having them at stock. The difference was very noticeable. I have the control arm drop as well.

 

Anyways, more info than really needed...I do know the return to center can be improved by adjusting the alignment.

Edited May 4, 2011 by rangerdoc

[jmlay 80]

Camber is how far the wheel leans in or out, having to much positive or neg will affect tire wear. Caster is the relation ship of the upper vs lower ball joints, upper being forward or back back being positive & not having much affect on tire wear. More positive caster will help with return to center.:

 

http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm

[72conv 10]

If you read the write up on the Borgeson steering conversion in Mustang Monthly, they say to use the OEM idler arm if you want the steering to return to center. They say the aftermarket idler arm will not return to center.

 

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techarticles/mump_1003_how_to_install_integral_power_steering_gear/index.html

[70mstang 11]

Does anyone have a pic of the Saginaw pump mounted? The instructions with the Borgeson kit were lame at best or just missing half of the instructions.

[rangerdoc 22]

The last page of the mustang monthly article has a picture of it mounted without an a/c compressor above.

[70mstang 11]

I saw that pic, but the bracket in my kit looks nothing like that. So, I was hoping to see one that someone had taken from our forum.

Edited May 6, 2011 by 70mstang