Voltage reg. question.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Long wire with cover is oil pressure. white/red stripe

Looks like wire with knot is water temp. red/blue stripe

Skinned wire looks like coil + side. red/green stripe

 

Color codes off the top of my head.:001_smile:

[prayers1 153]

While reading this, Please keep in mind that I was recently informed by the PO the following:

He bought the car 10 years ago, it already had no Volt. Reg and was set up with a GM alternator. Afterwards he could only get 6 volts to the coil, therefore he had to tap into the radio wire and use a MSD igniter to get 12 volts.

This now leads me to the problem of trying to make the charging and starting systems back to normal.

Main Goal:

1, I would like to run a 1 wire alternator. I was given a good working 140 amp Power master (I already read the bad reviews).

2, I would like to get 12 volts to the coil. I think it has something to do with the engine wires coming from the center of the fire wall

Today, I was able to unwrap the electrical wires going to the solenoid. I enclosed a hand drawing of the same. Starting from the Radiator support (passenger side), I found a small dia. 4†cut black wire (see pic); this is about 2 ft. from the Solenoid. Further up that bundle, I found a cut green/ red stripe wire totally wrapped in electrical tape. All of the other wires further up are self explanatory as shown in the hand drawing.

I then found the engine wires (Oil, Water, etc.) pulled ½ way inside the dash. I was able to push the grommet through the hole and took a pic for your view. Next to the 3 engine wires sticking out, there are 2 wires that become one thick black wire, that wire is cut off and taped. Then on the inside of the firewall with the same bundle wires and just before the grommet there is a small 4†brown cut wire also seen in the photo.

Next, at the main harness connection in the engine bay and next to the master cylinder there is a 2†frayed bare wire (I think it has something to do with the brake idiot light?). Next to that wire is a frayed green / red stripe wire that runs within the harness, note within the pic & bottom of the hand drawing.

1, Can someone can tell me if I was able to identify any of the Volt. Reg wires.

2, what is the 2 into one wire at the engine wire (Coil ?)

3, Is the 2†frayed wires at the main harness for the brakes.

4, does the green/ red stripe frayed wire have anything to do with the starting or charging system.

 

I know this is a lot of thinking, but I’m stuck and need your help. Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[69gmachine 15]

I would simply replace the entire underhood wire harness. It will be a lot easier to start with good wires and end terminals. Then you can just plug the smaller wire harnesses (like a new alternator harness) into the main harness and not worry about which wire goes where. You could be chasing shorts and opens for weeks, months or even years with a harness in that bad of a condition.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Ok, I flipped thru the pic's you have and the PO has hacked it to hell.:thumbdown:

 

I think he was trying to upgrade by short cutting the wiring harness and it failed.

Your going to have to remove all of the wrapping and sort thru this mess and I would do it now before you move forward only to find out there is a major problem, IE; FIRE!

 

The cut brown wire is from the start sol for ign+

 

the bare wire with plug is brake warning lamp.

 

The taped up wires at the 4 plug is the backup lamps/neutral saftey.

 

the green/red is for alt charge ind.

 

The 2 into 1 is the + coil wire.

 

What should have been done to get a 12v feed to coil/switched wire for msd box is remove the resistor wire from the main harness behind the inst cluster. That would have provide a keyed source for the ign up grade.

 

The Alt hook up was simple till the makeshift wiring left a open in the charge loop.

 

This is going to be a project working the eng bay side and under the dash to get it corrected.

Here is what I went thru on the 68 to get it all right.

 

the one with pencil shows the pink resistor wire.

[danno 128]

I might be inclined to agree that you need a whole new main engine wire harness. I am referring to the main one, because it has all the charging wires in it. There is a seperate place above your drivers side valve cover in the firewall with 4 connectors near the firewall.

 

This seperate place has 4 connectors. This is in view 3 of your recent photos. One for wiper motor, one for engine ignition and sensors, one for transmission hookup ( neutral and backup swith) and maybe one for air conditioner compressor. Did the have factory A/C? All these connectors look good. I don't know the condition of the harnesses that plug into them.

 

View 16 shows your engine ignition and sensors harness, and that looks like it is also ok.

 

But the main harness is my concern. I see view 1 with a bad wire to the brake warning connector. Are there any bad wires with the covering off (Exposing the bare metal) in the firewall connection shown in this same picture? It looks like it is in bad shape, can you get a closer picture of it?

[buening 63]

Print those wiring diagrams I linked you to on the VMF (Midlife's webpage). Locate a particular component on the diagram and see what wires attach to it. For example, locate the "Windshield Washer Motor". You'll see that a green wire goes to a certain pin on the firewall connector. You can either look for the green wire on that connector, or look at the wire grouping in the diagram and see which side is the drivers side. Once you figure that out, you can trace all wires coming from that plug.

 

Also, the diagrams are pretty well organized with components at the rear of the car on one page and the front of the car on another page. Be sure to clean up those wires to remove the spray paint off them (enough to see what the wire color is). Like I said before, use a good cleaner with a rag. In regards to the alternator/regulator/solenoid wiring, you really need to unwrap the harness back until you get to the factory wires. With that many splices, a generic "black" color at the end doesn't do us much good. We need to know what the wire color is on the factory portion. You may be able to save the current harness but it will involve lots of splicing new wires and eliminating the old splices. There are a few factory splices and those will have a formed rubber cylinder over the splice. An example would be the alternator charge where the Yellow wire and the Black/Yellow wire splice together to the Black charge wire (not labeled, pretty sure that is the color though). Looking at the diagram it appears there are two factory splices on that alternator charge wire. The other has the Red and Green/Black joining the black charge wire.

[prayers1 153]

I appreciate everyones time and attention regarding this mess up. It's way beyond my technical experience and with all ofthe other items in need of repair, I'll never get the car on the road.

 

The funniest thing happened to me today, I was speaking to a man about my concern and he told me of an elderly gentleman who has 3 warehouses of early Mustang parts, plus a few part vehicles right in my town (Yeah Right!) Now you have to understand, I live in a very rural part of the country, with about a population of 12000. So, I decided to see for myself if this is true. That's right, I found the jack pot! This guy had everything you could imagine to rebuild early Mustangs, even tons oem parts. It was like walking in a candy store and he had a new wiring harness made by Scott Drake for $205, so I bought it!

 

I will be putting the harness in sometime soon. My question now is:

Once I put the replacement harness in, I'm going to need a Voltage Reg and the original type alternator, also I'll be running aftermarket mechanical gauges. Will I be able to get 12 volts from the wire where the engine wires (oil & water temp) are coming from to the coil. OR Is something I'm missing or something else I need to take care of to get 12 volts like the stock set up.

 

Thanks for your patience!!!!

[prayers1 153]

Mach1Rider,

You mentioned:

 

The cut brown wire is from the start sol for ign+

Are you referring to pic #6, 4" brown wire inside and under the dash?

 

The taped up wires at the 4 plug is the backup lamps/neutral saftey

Are your referring to pic, #5. It has 2 small red wires that go into one thick black wire, or is that the 2 into 1 coil wire.

 

In pic #5, there is a small female plug. Next to what I call the 2 into 1 wire. What is that for?

 

If I understand, I should replace the 2 into 1 coil wire. Then do you think I will have 12 volts to the coil?

 

Thanks!!!!

[prayers1 153]

I made a mistake calling pic #5, 2 into 1, when actually it's 4 wires. One red wire makes a loop back into the plug and the other 2 red wires run together in a black plastic sleeve. Is this the backup / neutral safty wire. Here's a pic of what I'm taliking about.

 

Here's what I think your calling the engine wires.

 

White sheath (red/white stripe) = oil

White wire = water

Red/light blue stripe = Positive side of coil

 

Any tips on installing the harness connection at the firewall.

Here's the diagram I'm trying to follow

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Your top pic is neutral saftey plug.

second pic is eng harness.

Yes brown wire that is bare is from "I" side of starter sol hooked (supposed to be) Ign wire bridged on to coils + lead.

 

No you won't have 12v to coil unless you remove and replace resistor wire from ing switch. It is located inside of the main wiring harrness behind the inst cluster.

 

The diagram you have is fine.

[danno 128]

The diagram you have in slide 34 is NOT fine. It is for a car with a Tachometer. If you have one, it is correct. If you do not have a tach, it is wrong. The main engine compartment wire harness is totally different with a tach and no tach car.

 

That could be the source of your problem. There is a similar diagram for cars without tachs.

[crankywanker 10]

The diagram you have in slide 34 is NOT fine. It is for a car with a Tachometer. If you have one, it is correct. If you do not have a tach, it is wrong. The main engine compartment wire harness is totally different with a tach and no tach car.

 

That could be the source of your problem. There is a similar diagram for cars without tachs.

 

 

Aye. Is it true that STA is the post you use for a tach wire?

[prayers1 153]

How's this diagram.

 

 

I can't make heads or tails on the harness install. Someone get me straight before I attempt this project.

The headlamp diagram shows the green/red wire on the 2nd row from the top and 1st to the left (10).

The Black/white dia shows the green/red at the 4th row left 1st to the left.

My harness connect has the green/red at the 1st row 2nd from the rt.

 

Here's the Headlamp harness dia.

 

Now, getting back to 12 volts to the coil. I see in the diagram that the short cut brown wire behind the gromet that feeds the engine wires is part of the coil wire. If I locate the other end where is connects to the main panel, would I be able to splice a wire inbetween to get 12 volts. Whats this about "remove and replace resistor wire from ing switch".

 

Why do that? Also, where is the reststor wire on the dia below.

Anyone install a new wire harness anything I should be aware of!

Thanks again for all of your HELP!

[LoneWolf2U 136]

:closedeyes:.. Yea would be nice to know if its a tach car or not!

 

See pic for famous pink resistor wire, you can leave it or remove it

depending on the ign system your going to install.

Removing it for electronic ign system that require a 12v switched source to operate correctly.

Leave it in place if your going to be running a point style system.

 

The brown wire that comes from the "I" post of the starter sol give the coil + side power when your key is in cranking mode. Without this connected there will be no power to the + side of the coil and it will not start.

 

If you open the main harness behind the inst cluster, you will find the brown wire and the red/green (which goes to the coil +) wire joined at the end of the pink wire.

The other end of the pink wire will change color to red/green near the plug for the ign switch.

 

The headlight hareness should be a plug and play if you have the correct one.

[prayers1 153]

I think I figured out the wire harness connector block position.

If you turn the 69 HeadLamp Harness page clockwise, you can see that the wires line up with my original connector on the car. So, I'll just follow what I have on my connector instead of the wire diagrams listed above.

 

In regards to my questions regarding the resistence wire & short brown wire to coil wire.

 

I thought it would be important to advise that I will not be running a stock Dist. and would this resistence & brown wire still be needed.

 

I have a Mallory Unilite Distributor and a Mallory Promaster e-coil that has never been used in this car.

 

The dist gets wired like this:

Red goes to pos. side of coil,

Green goes to neg. side of coil,

blk to engine ground.

 

The Key Switch goes to Pos. side of coil.

 

Where is this KEY Switch wire?

 

Does that brown wire "start sol for ign+" have anything to do with this type of ignition.

OR

How would I get power to the coil?

 

Thank you!

[prayers1 153]

Sorry Mach1Rider, I posted before I read your comments.

I don't want to sound stupid, but I'm on a learning curve. Also, no tach.

 

When you were talking about the brown wire I thought you were referring to the small cut wire under the dash that ties into the engine coil wire. I now see, that you are referring to the solenoid brown wire. On my vehicle, there is nothing wrong with that wire.

 

You state "If you open the main harness behind the inst cluster, you will find the brown wire and the red/green (which goes to the coil +) wire joined at the end of the pink wire.

The other end of the pink wire will change color to red/green near the plug for the ign switch."

 

When I find the brown & red/green wire and if it's still attached, do you want me to remove it from the PINK? I don't know if the PO already done this. Hopefully I'll be going to the car (at another location) and I'll take the panel off and look. Unforunately there is no web access out there so I'm trying to get as much info now as possible.

 

Thank You to all!

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Sorry Mach1Rider, I posted before I read your comments.

I don't want to sound stupid, but I'm on a learning curve. Also, no tach.

The car is over 40 so many hands have been in there so no problem.

When you were talking about the brown wire I thought you were referring to the small cut wire under the dash that ties into the engine coil wire. I now see, that you are referring to the solenoid brown wire. On my vehicle, there is nothing wrong with that wire.

I was talking about that brown wire that your pic shows as bare end, you must verify that the wire from the sol 'I " term is connected and working or it will not start with key.

 

You state "If you open the main harness behind the inst cluster, you will find the brown wire and the red/green (which goes to the coil +) wire joined at the end of the pink wire.

The other end of the pink wire will change color to red/green near the plug for the ign switch."

 

When I find the brown & red/green wire and if it's still attached, do you want me to remove it from the PINK? I don't know if the PO already done this. Hopefully I'll be going to the car (at another location) and I'll take the panel off and look. Unforunately there is no web access out there so I'm trying to get as much info now as possible.

 

Thank You to all!

 

My guess is that you will not find it connected.

You will have to trace the wires back from known connecting points.

Start with brown wire on sol, trace it back thru firewall to end.

What is it connected to? It should join the red/green wire from the eng harness plug which came from the coils + side inside the main harness.

These 2 wires were connected to the pink resistor wire that ends at the ign switch plug.

If all of these wires lead to being properly connected, then it should start and run.

My bet is the PO was trying to get 12v to the coil and hacked the wiring up.

Now on to removing the resistor wire.

You must verify it with the ign system you are going to use.

Does it require a constant 12v to the coil? Yes, then replace the pink wire with another 14ga wire.

No, Then leave the resistor wire inplace and it will supply the coil + side with about 7.5 volts like stock form.

 

[prayers1 153]

On the old harness the brown sol. wire came from the engine side fuse panel, through the main trunk, then pass the rad. support and towards the solenoid. I suspect it is the same sequence on the new harness.

 

On the blk/wht dia. the red/green wire from the pos. side of the coil goes to the engine wires. after it by passes the firewall it breaks up into one brown and one pink wire. The brown wire then goes directly to the fuse box. The pink the goes to the key switch, pink for no tach & red/green w/ tach-then it attaches at the C on the key switch.

 

My brown wire from the engine harness inside the the dash has been cut, see photo. I will have to trace from fuse box to see if any brown wire is left?

 

 

Notice the fuse box photo, I can't confrim it for now since I'm not at the car, but it looks like a green/red wire hanging around and on the diagram it shows that wire going to the key switch C as well.

 

You mentioned:

"Start with brown wire on sol, trace it back thru firewall to end.

What is it connected to? It should join the red/green wire from the eng harness plug which came from the coils + side inside the main harness"

 

Are you saying, trace the brown wire from the solenoid to the engine side fuse panel, from there go from within the car and locate the fuse panel brown wire, that wire should run to the red/green wire at the coil wire. If you look on the wire diagram the brown wire does not flip over to the same pin location on the opposite side of the fuse box. Is that OK?

As noted above, my brown wire has been cut at the engine wire side, I still need to trace it at the fuse panel.

 

Does it require a constant 12v to the coil? Yes, then replace the pink wire with another 14ga wire.

Yes, it will require 12v. Do I take a 14ga wire, start at C, then tie into brown wire at engine harness, this will by pass the firewall to the solenoid directly, since I'm using mech gauges, no need for factory engine wires. Will I still have to run a brown wire and a green/red wire to the fuse panel.

 

Boy, this is like studying for an exam.

Thanks!!!!!!

Edited May 7, 2011 by prayers1

[prayers1 153]

I believe this is the Non-Tach colored wire diagram.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Following wire 262 brown, comes from sol to firewall and out to eng harness plug.

The brown wire in your prev pic is bare and unconnected.

 

Wire 16A is resistor wire replacing it will give you a constant 12v keyed source to ign system.

 

For your ign system,

Run wire fron "C" on ign switch to firewall, Pick up 262 brown wire from sol and tie togeather.

From the 2 joined wires, run wire to coil + side.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Mach1Rider

[prayers1 153]

OK!

 

I haven't seen the Ing. switch as of yet, but in my mind I'm seeing:

 

1,Wire from © Ign. switch, tie into brown (262), go out of the firewall to (I) on the Solenoid. New wire from © and new wire to (I), should be what gauge? Any in line fuses?

 

2,Either start at (I) and run a wire to positive side of coil. or, tap into (262) outside of firewall and run to positive side of coil. Use same gauge as above?

 

Questions:

1, What to do with the new wire harness wire (262), that will originate at engine side fuse panel.

2, What do I do if I find a damaged, cut or disconnected green/red wire (904) at the inside of the fuse panel.

3, What do I do if I find partcial brown wire (262), still connected or damaged to inside fuse panel side.

 

I can't say enough of how appreciated I am of everyones time, help, patience and attention to my concern. Thank You!

 

It was very hard for me to explain and understand my own problem, this was a great learning experience.

 

And Thank You as well Mach1Rider!!!!!!!

[prayers1 153]

I was on such a high this morning, couldn't wait to get to the car and solve my eletrical problem.

 

I first, got access to the Ign. switch and engine harness wires. I found burnt wires at the base of the switch and a telephone wire spliced into the yellow wire at the switch. "I'll have to replace that Ign. switch" I said.

 

I then found the PINK Res. wires and thought this is going to be easy.

 

I then proceded to the fuse panel, pulled everything off and brought it in front of me to work on. Boy, did my mouth drop!!!!! The harness had melted and brunt wires all over. What a way to ruin a great day.

SEE PHOTOS.

 

Luckily for me, a few days ago, I bought on eBay a whole dash wire harness, that's suppose to be in very good shape. When I was searching for the headlamp harness I came across it. Should be here in a few days.

 

One thing I'm concerned about, the discription on the eBay selling page said 1969-70 dash harness. Is there a difference between the 2 years if both are NO Tach and NO A/C. How would you tell if it's a 1969?

 

[Grabber70Mach 107]

Ignition switch connectors are different, the 70 is mounted on the column.

[prayers1 153]

Yes, I knew that the 69 is dash mounted and the 70 is a steering column mount. However, are the connections into the ignition switch the same, or would it be obviouis that you can't fit a 70 connector into a 69 ign. switch. I would also guess that the 70's style would have a much longer wire bundle going to the ign. switch.

 

Is there anything else you might think opf besides the ignition switch.

[Grabber70Mach 107]

The ignition switch connectors are different the 70 is square/rectangular. Unlike the 69 that plugs directly into the back of the switch, the 70 plugs into a harness that goes up to the switch. 70 harness also has the connector for the sportlamp switch, I'm just not sure if the Mach1 had a specific wiring harness for just that model or if that wiring was in all the harnesses.