Sorry guys, I tried...

[Truck 12]

I was rolling through the next state over when I noticed a 69 sitting on the street. After I took care of business, I went back looking for it, and the owner.

 

Turns out the guy was integral in the 69 production, as he was just out of high school. He answered a lot of questions about my 69 302 without even knowing he did. The guy was a wealth of info-I tried to get him to sign up at 69stang, but he's an older, "Face-to-Face Only" guy, so he won't.

 

(Also, turns out the car was a 351 Mach1 Grande...?!?!?!)

[ForceFed70 14]

It's neat to talk to the old guys. Gotta be careful tho as I've met a few who talk like they know everything, but don't know as much as they think.

 

Pretty sure there is no such thing as a "Mach1 Grande" for example.

[Fordrevhead 29]

He remembers a lot but it may be jumbled a bit. Grande is a trim package only available on a hardtop. I suppose it probably was possible to get a piece of the Grande trim package as an otherwise labeled option on a Mach however.

[Max Power 74]

No such thing as a Mach 1 Grande.

 

Completely different body codes.

[Pakrat 1,043]

Maybe it was a super rare prototype that never made it past the drawing boards. Was the conversation something like:

 

It's a 1 of a kind proto I did over.

Over Mach 1 Grande?

No, I'll never get over Mach 1 Grande.

[69gmachine 15]

Last year I went to a local cruise in at K-mart. An older man came over to my car and was telling his wife that my car was "all original". I pointed out numerous things that I've modified but thanked him for the compliment.

 

He went on to tell me he once had a Mach 1 he bought new with a 6 cylinder. I told him "I don't think they made Mach 1s with a 6 cylinder", trying not to sound demeaning in front of his wife. He was adamant, the codes on the door tag all checked out, it was a 6 cylinder Mach 1. I know Ford made mistakes on the line, but I just can't imagine this one getting through with a Mach 1 everything else but a 6 cylinder engine, codes or no codes.

 

When my mind starts to go I'm going to tell some whoppers about the Boss 429 I once had with a 302 and regular shock towers.

[Truck 12]

No such thing as a Mach 1 Grande.

 

Completely different body codes.

 

Wow. You guys sure know a lot about a conversation you weren't in.

 

(Had you asked about it, I would have told you that the car was ordered during the strike period, as Ford had to do something to support flagging sales. Why wait on a Ford when Dodge/Chevy had stuff ready to ship? The body style was Mach 1, but it had all sorts of goodies that Mach 1's didn't have-the luxury items that made the Grande so grand(e).)

 

Maybe it was better I didn't succeed. Sometimes old school beats the internet. Perhaps I should have apologized to him for suggesting you to him.

 

EDIT-Of Course, I got pics...glad I didn't waste my time posting them.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Truck

[stangme428 33]

yeah --- back in the day it was customer driven it seems... the person that bought my coupe wanted everything a mach1 had but in a coupe.... lucky for me... she didnt like the fastback...lol i think almost anything was possible in 69 if you had the money, who knows what the dealer would have done for a customer....:biggrin:

[Max Power 74]

Wow. You guys sure know a lot about a conversation you weren't in.

 

(Had you asked about it, I would have told you that the car was ordered during the strike period, as Ford had to do something to support flagging sales. Why wait on a Ford when Dodge/Chevy had stuff ready to ship? The body style was Mach 1, but it had all sorts of goodies that Mach 1's didn't have-the luxury items that made the Grande so grand(e).)

 

Maybe it was better I didn't succeed. Sometimes old school beats the internet. Perhaps I should have apologized to him for suggesting you to him.

 

EDIT-Of Course, I got pics...glad I didn't waste my time posting them.

 

Huh?

[Fordrevhead 29]

Hey Truck, most of us were just poking fun, relax:tongue_smilie:... and besides, you basically just said exactly what I said ?:001_huh:?

 

I suppose it probably was possible to get a piece of the Grande trim package as an otherwise labeled option on a Mach however.

[ForceFed70 14]

Wow. You guys sure know a lot about a conversation you weren't in.

 

(Had you asked about it, I would have told you that the car was ordered during the strike period, as Ford had to do something to support flagging sales. Why wait on a Ford when Dodge/Chevy had stuff ready to ship? The body style was Mach 1, but it had all sorts of goodies that Mach 1's didn't have-the luxury items that made the Grande so grand(e).)

 

Maybe it was better I didn't succeed. Sometimes old school beats the internet. Perhaps I should have apologized to him for suggesting you to him.

 

EDIT-Of Course, I got pics...glad I didn't waste my time posting them.

 

 

Someone is a little uptight. I don't know what you think the pics will prove, but do post them up.

 

There wasn't a single option available in the Grande that wasn't available in a Mach1. Mach1's typically had most of the luxary features such as the deluxe interior.

 

I find it odd that you somehow believe this oldtimer yet you won't believe all of us. Plus that story makes no sense. "There was a strike so they made Mach1's with lots of luxary options"?

 

Want to buy a bridge?

[Max Power 74]

Someone is a little uptight. I don't know what you think the pics will prove, but do post them up.

 

There wasn't a single option available in the Grande that wasn't available in a Mach1. Mach1's typically had most of the luxary features such as the deluxe interior.

 

I find it odd that you somehow believe this oldtimer yet you won't believe all of us. Plus that story makes no sense. "There was a strike so they made Mach1's with lots of luxary options"?

 

Want to buy a bridge?

 

 

This is why I said "Huh?"

 

I suppose you couldn't get Grande badges or a vinyl top on a Mach, but that's about it. I think the Grandes had sound deadening materials as well that I have no idea could come with Machs, otherwise, it really makes no sense. Not trying to be antagonistic at all. If I were trying to be antagonistic, I would have claimed to have a factory original Boss 302 Convertible in my garage....LOL!

[Pakrat 1,043]

I'm struggling to figure out why you were suddenly so defensive as well Truck. That's not like you at all and I can't see where any replies merited that reaction especially when your original post ended in : (Also, turns out the car was a 351 Mach1 Grande...?!?!?!) Usually the alternating ? and ! denotes that dog twisting it's head sideways kind of a (hunh? a what?) thing.

[Truck 12]

Hey Truck, most of us were just poking fun, relax:tongue_smilie:...

 

I can try

 

Someone is a little uptight. I don't know what you think the pics will prove, but do post them up....I find it odd that you somehow believe this oldtimer yet you won't believe all of us. Plus that story makes no sense. "There was a strike so they made Mach1's with lots of luxary options"?

 

I'm not going to waste the time posting pics with the inevitable "That's not True" BS that will follow, as I told Revhead, I'll try to relax, but the I'm not up for the attitude. I'm not sure if you remember 1969, but not a lot of it made sense. (And I have no idea what you'd call, 'sense' anyway. In my mind, offering options to get a leg up on the competition always makes sense.)

 

I'm struggling to figure out why you were suddenly so defensive as well Truck. That's not like you at all and I can't see where any replies merited that reaction especially when your original post ended in : (Also, turns out the car was a 351 Mach1 Grande...?!?!?!) Usually the alternating ? and ! denotes that dog twisting it's head sideways kind of a (hunh? a what?) thing.

 

It was an unusual story about the car, but the car wasn't the focus of the story. The guy was actually in Ford Production in 1969. He wasn't a mover-and-shaker, but he knows about the 'curious, can't-be-real' cars that we're so quick to 'call BS' on. The main focus was getting the guy to post his story, not to offer him up to guys to call BS on his car.

 

His memory was foggy a time or two, but he had bits of knowledge that just added to the things we can't find on the internet. It would have been really nice to have a guy or two more around here who know (knew) what was going on at the time.

[Pakrat 1,043]

Well I think there is a world of difference between the scenario you describe and what actually happened. Maybe from your perspective that's how we appear but I can't think of a single time when some new person has joined our group and we have yelled bullshit in their face and made them feel like they didn't belong. We have one of the best group of people on the net IMHO and the friendliest forum to prove it.

 

In defense, how many times have tails such as this proven to be right? Even before the internet the Mustang has been pretty well documented and certain things seem to be taken as hard given fact except for those extremly rare cases of test mules and protoypes that escaped the crusher. Anything is absolutely possible, hell Lochness and Bigfoot could be married for all I know but the odds are better that this is a case of selective memmory more than a rare odditiy, odds have been beaten many times though.

 

I guess the bottom line for me is that for as long as you have been a member here I wish you would give us a little more credit on how we treat a new member and his tale based on how we treat all new members vs. some initial response and comments on your second hand incomplete account of what was said. The car may not have been the focus of the story but when you close with something that seems incredulous what would you expect people to focus and comment on?

[Truck 12]

Well I think there is a world of difference between the scenario you describe and what actually happened. Maybe from your perspective that's how we appear but I can't think of a single time when some new person has joined our group and we have yelled bullshit in their face and made them feel like they didn't belong. We have one of the best group of people on the net IMHO and the friendliest forum to prove it.

 

I know this is one of the best forums (and topics) on the net, that's why I'm here. I don't pretend to teach here, I'm here to learn. I wanted this guy to sign up so he could lend whatever expertise he has. These cars are getting very old, so the firsthand accounts of the production lines is getting harder and harder to come by. Anything other than what's in Mr. Marti's or Ms. Erlinger's books is rare, no? I'm not saying the guy would answer anyone's questions, but the short time I spent talking to him was very interesting. That's why I recomended you guys to him.

 

In defense, how many times have tails such as this proven to be right? Even before the internet the Mustang has been pretty well documented and certain things seem to be taken as hard given fact except for those extremly rare cases of test mules and protoypes that escaped the crusher. Anything is absolutely possible, hell Lochness and Bigfoot could be married for all I know but the odds are better that this is a case of selective memmory more than a rare odditiy, odds have been beaten many times though.

 

Selective memory v. rare oddity? I really don't have odds on that subject. He obviously knew the 'outlandishness' of what he was saying...he wasn't just throwing words together that he found on the net.

 

... The car may not have been the focus of the story but when you close with something that seems incredulous what would you expect people to focus and comment on?

 

I, for one, try to focus and comment on the focus of the story. Maybe I didn't read in the smilies, but you'd have to admit that no one had anymore reason to doubt the tale as told than to believe the tale, as told. (You do realize I told a flesh-and-blood person to log into a computer and find, 1969stang.com, right? A complete stranger I took the time to find and talk to, and I gave him this site. The only reason I did so was to make it better. Give me credit for that.)

[Truck 12]

Well I think there is a world of difference between the scenario you describe and what actually happened. Maybe from your perspective that's how we appear but I can't think of a single time when some new person has joined our group and we have yelled bullshit in their face and made them feel like they didn't belong. We have one of the best group of people on the net IMHO and the friendliest forum to prove it.

 

I know this is one of the best forums (and topics) on the net, that's why I'm here. I don't pretend to teach here, I'm here to learn. I wanted this guy to sign up so he could lend whatever expertise he has. These cars are getting very old, so the firsthand accounts of the production lines is getting harder and harder to come by. Anything other than what's in Mr. Marti's or Ms. Erlinger's books is rare, no? I'm not saying the guy would answer anyone's questions, but the short time I spent talking to him was very interesting. That's why I recomended you guys to him.

 

In defense, how many times have tails such as this proven to be right? Even before the internet the Mustang has been pretty well documented and certain things seem to be taken as hard given fact except for those extremly rare cases of test mules and protoypes that escaped the crusher. Anything is absolutely possible, hell Lochness and Bigfoot could be married for all I know but the odds are better that this is a case of selective memmory more than a rare odditiy, odds have been beaten many times though.

 

Selective memory v. rare oddity? I really don't have odds on that subject. He obviously knew the 'outlandishness' of what he was saying...he wasn't just throwing words together that he found on the net.

 

... The car may not have been the focus of the story but when you close with something that seems incredulous what would you expect people to focus and comment on?

 

I, for one, try to focus and comment on the focus of the story. Maybe I didn't read in the smilies, but you'd have to admit that no one had anymore reason to doubt the tale as told than to believe the tale, as told. (You do realize I told a flesh-and-blood person to log into a computer and find, 1969stang.com, right? A complete stranger I took the time to find and talk to, and I gave him this site. The only reason I did so was to make it better. Give me credit for that.)

[MikeStang 247]

Bravo Truck, on trying to bring another member to the forums :)

I did kinda think the Crew was being a bit tough, but did see the same thing in your initial post about "MAch 1 Grande ???....i too thought you were telling the story you had been told by some one who thought they had a gold mine or was a total boob....I had to go back and read the post again to see where you said he was in production...

I knew an old timer when i was in High School who owned nothing but Shelby's, and that was his business, hell he used to GIVE me parts for my 68 Coupe, you name it, if he had it and it wasnt shelby and i needed it it was mine....he was one of those that loved the cars and would help a fellow mustang guy out any way he could......one thing he told me was to never discount the odd stories, and always go to see about those far fetched sounding cars that friends of friends had for sale, this is how he found several of his shelby's....one of which was a 68 GT KR 500 Vert.

So i usually dont discount what the real old timers have to say, no matter how weird it sounds.

Another fellow i know now worked at ford in one of the Skunk Works Areas, and he has told me some funny stories about some really wild Shit ford did back in the day and still does today.......

Ever wonder how many Lbs of Nitrous a 460 on a 400 Shot will consume in a week before it finally lets go......I do :P and i have no reason to doubt the story is true.

We just need to try to be more tolerant of folks and the wild stories is all, just seems like we hear them more and more.

Mike

[MikeStang 247]

Bravo Truck, on trying to bring another member to the forums :)

I did kinda think the Crew was being a bit tough, but did see the same thing in your initial post about "MAch 1 Grande ???....i too thought you were telling the story you had been told by some one who thought they had a gold mine or was a total boob....I had to go back and read the post again to see where you said he was in production...

I knew an old timer when i was in High School who owned nothing but Shelby's, and that was his business, hell he used to GIVE me parts for my 68 Coupe, you name it, if he had it and it wasnt shelby and i needed it it was mine....he was one of those that loved the cars and would help a fellow mustang guy out any way he could......one thing he told me was to never discount the odd stories, and always go to see about those far fetched sounding cars that friends of friends had for sale, this is how he found several of his shelby's....one of which was a 68 GT KR 500 Vert.

So i usually dont discount what the real old timers have to say, no matter how weird it sounds.

Another fellow i know now worked at ford in one of the Skunk Works Areas, and he has told me some funny stories about some really wild Shit ford did back in the day and still does today.......

Ever wonder how many Lbs of Nitrous a 460 on a 400 Shot will consume in a week before it finally lets go......I do :P and i have no reason to doubt the story is true.

We just need to try to be more tolerant of folks and the wild stories is all, just seems like we hear them more and more.

Mike

[DarkBuddha 107]

I haven't posted here in a while and was just perusing some of the recent threads when I found this one. I was going to reply with my doubts about the likelihood that a "Mach 1 Grande" was legit, but then I realized that it doesn't really matter without some real proof. Now if someone has pics and a copy of the VIN (to get a Marti report), then we can get to the bottom of it, otherwise it's just a stupid conversation being had by stupid people. But if, in fact, this car is legit, it is likely worth pursuing it and submitting it to one of the publications like Mustang Monthly. It would be an unusual and never-seen-before example. But for some reason, I highly doubt it would pass the fact-checking process.

 

Besides, how many of us have heard someone say every sportsroof is a Mach 1, or every Coupe with a vinyl top is a Grande? I know I have... and by some folks that consider themselves very well informed and knowledgeable. They'll tell you that every Mach 1 was a 428 car and had a shaker hood. They'll tell you that they all got the front spoiler, sport slats, rear wing, and they're all worth $100k plus. Yep... and they'll tell you that the Shelby Mach 1s are the rarest and got 4:30 lockers. Keep your eyes out folks... that Shelby Mach 1 is out there.

 

BTW, in any case, I do believe a vinyl top was available as an option on sportsroof Mustangs, so that wouldn't be something that necessarily made it a "Mach 1 Grande".

 

Now lets see that VIN.

[Truck 12]

... I can't think of a single time when some new person has joined our group and we have yelled bullshit in their face and made them feel like they didn't belong.

 

Here ya go...

 

it's just a stupid conversation being had by stupid people.

 

 

But if, in fact, this car is legit, it is likely worth pursuing it and submitting it to one of the publications like Mustang Monthly. It would be an unusual and never-seen-before example. But for some reason, I highly doubt it would pass the fact-checking process.

...

 

Now lets see that VIN.

 

It's not my car to post, but I made sure to get a few pics. Most of your argument is obvious and or non-sensical, so I think it's just best to call it quits for you.

 

 

Bravo Truck, on trying to bring another member to the forums :)

I did kinda think the Crew was being a bit tough, but did see the same thing in your initial post about "MAch 1 Grande ???....i too thought you were telling the story you had been told by some one who thought they had a gold mine or was a total boob....I had to go back and read the post again to see where you said he was in production...

I knew an old timer when i was in High School who owned nothing but Shelby's, and that was his business, hell he used to GIVE me parts for my 68 Coupe, you name it, if he had it and it wasnt shelby and i needed it it was mine....he was one of those that loved the cars and would help a fellow mustang guy out any way he could......one thing he told me was to never discount the odd stories, and always go to see about those far fetched sounding cars that friends of friends had for sale, this is how he found several of his shelby's....one of which was a 68 GT KR 500 Vert.

So i usually dont discount what the real old timers have to say, no matter how weird it sounds.

Another fellow i know now worked at ford in one of the Skunk Works Areas, and he has told me some funny stories about some really wild Shit ford did back in the day and still does today.......

Ever wonder how many Lbs of Nitrous a 460 on a 400 Shot will consume in a week before it finally lets go......I do :P and i have no reason to doubt the story is true.

We just need to try to be more tolerant of folks and the wild stories is all, just seems like we hear them more and more.

Mike

 

Thanks Mike, you see what I was trying to do. If the guy had been my age or younger, I would have posted it with a 'most likely BS' sort of thing. Since he is familiar with the car since it was special-ordered, I didn't. (The car is, apparently, on it's second owner-Don't think I thought a high-school kid could special order a Grande or a Mach 1 by working where he was.)

 

Really, showing up with a story of, " I seen a mustang, with a weird story." Doesn't make one special. But After looking over the buck tag and everything, "I seen a mustang with a weird story that passes the sniff test." Is a little different matter. I don't have the resources to get all "Quincy" with the investigation, but I have poured through enough photos of the 69/70 stang to say I can keep my head above water in the BS category.

 

Thanks again, if more members gave your reaction, we could probably get more old-timers to sign up. There's a huge generation gap, so when the guy said he didn't really want to fool around with the internet, I could hardly blame him.

[DarkBuddha 107]

It's not my car to post, but I made sure to get a few pics. Most of your argument is obvious and or non-sensical, so I think it's just best to call it quits for you.

WTF does "not my car to post" mean exactly? It's not as if we're talking about plagiarize-able material here. Would you take the same stance about posting pics you take on the street or at a show? Perhaps, but probably not. There is nothing in posting the pics of the car that should cause the owner harm or damage, especially since you're not attempting to use it for profitable reasons. Your hesitance to post the VIN on the other hand is quite understandable, but it would be productive to get the Marti report of the vehicle to help clarify and resolve this discussion.

 

As for what part of my argument is "obvious and or (sic) non-sensical" is not obvious to me. If you're implying there is some ruse in my post, I promise you there is not. I'm not trying to be provocative or challenging, I was simply stating my perspective, where assertions made without support or proof are readily and promptly dismissed, as are those that make them until such point as they are able and willing to provide support or proof of their assertions. This is the way it works for people who operate in any field of consequence with integrity, though much of the world (and especially the internet) seems to be willing to forgo or simply avoid it outright.

 

Post the car, don't post the car, I don't care. To be honest, in the great big scheme of things, the existence of such a car is fairly inconsequential. The guys stories are probably worth more than the car, whether they're true or not.

[Truck 12]

WTF does "not my car to post" mean exactly? It's not as if we're talking about plagiarize-able material here. Would you take the same stance about posting pics you take on the street or at a show? Perhaps, but probably not.

 

If a guy displays his car at a show, I would post the pics-if it's on the street in front of his house, I won't without permission. it's as simple as that. The last thing I would want is more blowback from telling people (some of) what he told me. Rest assured, we talked a lot, and he went into a few other things that don't relate to the 69 Mach 1, I didn't get too deep into his collection, because I had just pulled over to meet the guy, and didn't want to seem like I was 'casing his stash'. He was very hospitable, he got in, started it up, then went right around and opened the hood. Do you do that for people who stopped to see how cool your car is? As we talked, I was very interested in his collection, but didn't want to run around, "Can I get a pic of that?" "Can I get a pic of that?" "Can I get a pic of that?" "Can I get a pic of that?" "Can I get a pic of that?"

 

There is nothing in posting the pics of the car that should cause the owner harm or damage, especially since you're not attempting to use it for profitable reasons. Your hesitance to post the VIN on the other hand is quite understandable, but it would be productive to get the Marti report of the vehicle to help clarify and resolve this discussion.

 

You seem unaware that muscle car collecting is getting to be a rough game. There are people who would pull whatever they needed to acquire whatever they wanted. (I don't believe a lot-if any- of this goes on at 69stang, but check VMF. Mr. Marti had a very displeased customer who claimed Mr. Marti "shifted" the numbers on his car to make it appear common, then had a lady in his office call the customer to make an offer to buy it at a steal! I don't know the validity of the guy's claims, but I am not taking that risk with this guy's car, or mine.)

 

As for what part of my argument is "obvious and or (sic) non-sensical" is not obvious to me. If you're implying there is some ruse in my post, I promise you there is not. I'm not trying to be provocative or challenging, I was simply stating my perspective, where assertions made without support or proof are readily and promptly dismissed, as are those that make them until such point as they are able and willing to provide support or proof of their assertions. This is the way it works for people who operate in any field of consequence with integrity, though much of the world (and especially the internet) seems to be willing to forgo or simply avoid it outright.

 

We all can tell 'big fisherman' stories about guys who claim their car was something that, for whatever reason, it was not. But even if you have a million of those stories, you can't discount one that (I admit) you haven't heard all of. I know which equipment he said the car shipped with, I just haven't said so. Like I said, Not really my car to post, or tell stories about. I've given enough info that, even in 20 years, if anyone on this board sees or hears of this car-they will recognize it.

 

the existence of such a car is fairly inconsequential.

 

Yeah, one-off special orders are as common as cake. :helpsmilie:

 

The guys stories are probably worth more than the car, whether they're true or not.

 

Maybe, but if true, it may be worth more than some other Mach1's.

 

 

As for what part of my argument is "obvious and or (sic) non-sensical" is not obvious to me.

 

This part: Do better next time.

 

Besides, how many of us have heard someone say every sportsroof is a Mach 1, or every Coupe with a vinyl top is a Grande? I know I have...I have not, and I would probably laugh at this nonsense. and by some folks that consider themselves very well informed and knowledgeable. Raise your hand if you think you are misinformed, and unknowledgable. They'll tell you that every Mach 1 was a 428 car and had a shaker hood. They'll tell you that they all got the front spoiler, sport slats, rear wing, and they're all worth $100k plus. Yep... and they'll tell you that the Shelby Mach 1s are the rarest and got 4:30 lockers. Keep your eyes out folks... that Shelby Mach 1 is out there.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Truck

[Pakrat 1,043]

Well there is a first time for everything, I just never thought it would have to happen here.

 

Can anyone guess what time it is for this thread?