Ethenol and gas lines...

[coz 108]

Guys,

 

I've been reading about how E10 gas is eating through rubber hoses including the stainless steel offerings alot of us run to bling up the engine some. It appears the Ethenol additive weakens the rubber enough to cause collapse of the hose and possibly leak. I've read were a least one engine fire has been blamed on a weakened hose.

 

While I run hard lines from tank to engine bay sidewall, I run 8AN from the sidewall to my fuel pump and from the pump to the carb. I checked the car line and it seems fine (stiff). However, the 8" line from hard line to fuel pump is soft and spongy. So obviously I will be replacing that line and maybe the whole thing from sidewall forward. From what I've read no rubber lines are safe. The only soft lines that are safe are ones with telflon coating. Of course, those lines (by Areoquip) are more expensive.

 

Just thought I'd pass it on....

[Truck 12]

True, true. Ethanol burns at a lower temp, too. I'm not surprised about the engine fire. If you had higher than E10, it's quite possible to start combusting before the gas reaches the intake!

[LSG 15]

Coz, my guess is that ethanol is not the problem. Back when leaded gasoline was still sold, I put 'regohol' in my stang, and my Ford P/U. Now, we haven't had leaded fuel for a couple of decades, but we HAVE had 10 % ethanol in the unleaded for all this time. And my stang, my 71 truck, my 91 t bird and my wife's buick and chevy are all just fine. My personal suspicion is that sometimes there is something in the fuel that shouldn't be there, like METHANOL, which IS corrosive and damages parts. And if the fuel company thinks you're blaming the ethanol when thats not the problem, they get to laugh all the way to the bank. I think ethanol gets blamed for lots of problems that it in fact does not cause.

 

LSG

[coz 108]

Nah - I can pretty much attest to ethanol eating rubber lines. I just had my carb cleaned and rejetted and fuel filter cleaned due to all the rubber crap in the line. I also pulled the -8AN braided rubber lines and they are definitely coming apart. IMO - E10 is crap. Do some reading about it and all the damage it causes and the issues with the lower fuel burning temps. The biggest issue is with boats and cars like ours that aren't run regularly. The real problem occurs when the lines get wet and then dry over a period of time.

 

My buddy's fuel lines... E10 for 3 years and this is the result.

 

I am replacing my soft lines with teflon coated. They are what you need for E10 or E85. I suggest anyone running rubber lines (including braided) to replace them before they leave you stranded or worse. My lines are very soft and smell of gas for several days after driving. Imagine one busting after 50 miles on the road spraying fuel on a hot header - not a pretty picture....

 

Some offerings out there....

 

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3480

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FCC0806/Application/?query=Fluid+Type%7cGasoline

Edited July 15, 2010 by coz

[LSG 15]

Coz, you certainly have a bad hose there, but can we be certain that ethanol is to blame ? I'm not at all sure we can. I'm in Michigan, and we have had 10% ethanol in the fuel for 25 years. Its in everything except AVgas and some racing fuel. My 69 has some of what i believe are its original hoses on it- atleast I haven't replaced them all, and i bought the car in 1980. I started using 10% ethanol fuel in the early eighties, when you could still buy leaded regular, and purchased a fuel called 'regohol'. I used that as long as it was available. When leaded went away ( 1984 ? ) I used the 10% unleaded. Its not like there was anything else to choose. When E85 came out, I purchased 10 gallons of it and soaked a holley 4160, a motorcraft 2100, a rod a piston, some bearings, rings, in the stuff for six months straight. Nothing happened to any of it. And my car has had no problems with ethanol, and the rubber lines are okay, for 25 years. But, I'm in Michigan, and what my car was built with for hoses, and what is in my fuel, may not be the same as what you have. Our marine fuel also has 10% ethanol in it. I AM using the stang everyday in the nicer weather,so it doesn't sit for more than a few days without being run. But it sits for months in winter, and this has not caused a problem. It is interesting that SOME of the marinas have had lots of trouble that they blame on ethanol, and some others have no trouble at all. But because the fuels the marinas sell all comes from the same tank farm or refinery....why do some find trouble and others don't ? My belief is that some of the less than well run places have other problems. Like storage tanks that leak- fuel leaks out, ground water and dirt leak in. So you have few inches of dirty water in the bottom of the tank, and that gets pumped into the boat when fueling. Now suppose the boat's tank has some crap in it........ethanol is an excellent detergent. So the fuel systems insides are scrubbed clean and the now free floating trash plugs up the filter, the carbs and whatnot. Same thing happens to lawn mowers.

 

The bigger problem used to be availabilty of ethanol was not always consistant. When MTBE was used as an oxygenate, most hoses were fine. MTBE was found to be contaminating ground water, so it was discontinued, and ethanol was used as oxygenate instead. Many fuel blenders couldn't get enough ethanol, and some of the less than caring ones just used methanol instead. What happened to your hose could happen in just a few days running methanol, it is very corrosive.

 

Don't expect anyone who has blended methanol into their fuel to admit to doing so- the know very well it is nasty, but some of them just don't care. They also sleep very well at night knowing that damage will not be immediately apparent, and that with ethanol in most fuel, they probably will not be caught or held to blame.

 

If we look at ethanol from a chemist's or an engineer's point of view, it looks pretty good as a fuel. But it IS differant than the straight gasoline hydrocarbon stew that we used to have. But, like it or not, most of us have to deal with it. There are lots of places where gasoline without ethanol simply is not available.

 

They way to go, I think, is to replace your rubber lines as needed with new ones that are up to the job, replace your fuel filter, and you could consider cleaning the inside of the fuel tank and replacing the pickup filter in the tank. other than that, drive and enjoy.

 

 

as a side note, i have used E85 in some of my stuff that was never intended to have it- 91 T bird, 98 Buick, my lawn mower. No trouble yet, but you will have to fuss with jetting on the mower, and the cars don't like to run more than 2/3rd throttle. Still playing around. Ignition power makes a HUGE differance. Compression matters too,more is better. Some of our guys who have the high performance stuff, or who have built up their own engines, may be able to have good success with E85. It has an octane value of 105, and is cheaper than racing fuel. Some places it is cheaper than regular. I think it is very much worth some thinking.

 

 

 

LSG