R & P steering, why ?

[LSG 15]

Guys, I have to ask, what is the fascination that some folks have with R&P steering ? It seems exspensive to purchase and a hassle to install. So why are folks doing it ? What posible advantages are there that justify the cost and hassle of adding R&P ? Have some of y'all ever driven a 'stang with a good steering box and front end pieces that are not worn out, and the correct alignment ? Hint- the alignment specs in the book are NOT what you want. Seems like a waste of $ to me. So for those of you have R&P, why'd you do it ? do you think you improved the feel of the turns or tracks nicer or what ? Educate me here. LSG

[danno 128]

I had a factory power steering system and I really did not trust in driving in traffic. I am in Minneapolis and frequently drive in freeway traffic. I tried to get my factory system perfect by replacing all the parts and after all that it was still sloopy steering. I didn't try any fancy alignment tricks, though. To me the biggest advantage of R&P was to get rid of the play in the steering wheel. I used to drive at 60mph on a stright freeway and the wheel could move 2 or 3 inches and I would still be going straight down the road. That is just the way cars were back then. The cost of R&P is high, but the cost of an accident is always higher.

 

I put in Randall's Rack system, and have been so glad I did. If you are only driving in a small town without traffic and concerns for maneuvering, then I could understand keeping it original. The only thing I do not like is the rack system does not have as much wheel correction when you go around a corner. If you went around a corner with the old system and let the wheel go, the wheel would correct back a little bit to keep the car going straight. The R&P systems do some of this, but not as much.

[grendi 16]

if you would have ever driven a car with R&P, this question would be obsolete and by the way, i have no idea what hassle you are talking about.

[torino420 10]

Not much of a hassle to install, either way, way worth having modern steering on these old cars.

[Angel 24]

i have the stock power steering system and i dont have many complaints. the box has never been rebuilt, to my knowledge. neither has the power steering pump, ram bar, etc. none of the power steering components have been rebuilt. hose are new, but thats it. all other steering and suspension components are new, with the exception of the pitman arm. now ive never driven a classic mustang with a r&p. the only thing i have to reference is a newer mustang. im sure the r&p is an improvement, but for me, its not completely necessary and im not sure the slight improvement would justify the cost.

 

so far this year, ive got close to 11,000 miles of highway driving on my car plus an additional 2800 city miles. my girlfriend lives an hour away and i regularly visit. i often find myself taking turns and going down curvy hills much faster than the bmw or m-b right next to me. ive got the front lowered more than 2", bigger f/r sway bars, shelby drop, roller perches, 620s, and.....my alignment is off. but my set-up satisfies my needs. and ive made some quick maneuvers at 70mph(average highway speed) no problem. im sure that at the track the difference is noticeable, maybe even significant, but my kind of driving doesnt require it. traditionally a r&p system, although more accurate, is weaker than an old box and center link system.

 

that last sentence is a fact, all else is just my opinion.

[Max Power 74]

I had a factory power steering system and I really did not trust in driving in traffic. I am in Minneapolis and frequently drive in freeway traffic. I tried to get my factory system perfect by replacing all the parts and after all that it was still sloopy steering. I didn't try any fancy alignment tricks, though. To me the biggest advantage of R&P was to get rid of the play in the steering wheel. I used to drive at 60mph on a stright freeway and the wheel could move 2 or 3 inches and I would still be going straight down the road. That is just the way cars were back then. The cost of R&P is high, but the cost of an accident is always higher.

 

I put in Randall's Rack system, and have been so glad I did. If you are only driving in a small town without traffic and concerns for maneuvering, then I could understand keeping it original. The only thing I do not like is the rack system does not have as much wheel correction when you go around a corner. If you went around a corner with the old system and let the wheel go, the wheel would correct back a little bit to keep the car going straight. The R&P systems do some of this, but not as much.

 

I drive the same roads and I am comfortable with the old system.

[MAD IN NC 21]

I started wo Power steering.... PAIN IN THE A$$ to deal with, parking, driveway etc.... Then I went with the FoMoCo PS setup - better, yes. Was it a good feeling - sure if the car is stock....

 

Went Restomod w 408 etc... First thing that had to upgrade was the steering.

 

Went with R&P from Randall Racks. It was the equivalent of a BRAIN TRANSPLANT!

 

R&P is a no question asked upgrade in my mind but it all depends on what you want to do with your car. If originality is the path - FoMoCo PS. If not and a tighter more nimbler experience is wanted then R&P.

 

Car now handles like the car is on steroid's - a whole new feeling...... I put it up there with a new car feel. No slop. No kick, no shutter and best of all NO LEAKS!

 

Alignment is the same - installation ~ 3.5 to 4 hr's. EASY! My boy did it. He's was 19 then.

Edited October 29, 2009 by MAD IN NC

[Handegard 10]

Our '70 has factory power steering, and I have not a single complaint. It's a daily driver for my girlfriend, and I log some decent highway miles on it from time to time.

 

It drives just fine, no complaints, steering is nimble and tight ( I have a little double "S curve locally I love to slalom though)

 

I too have been wondering what the big drive for a rack and pinion is, and yes, I've driven plenty of cars with a R&P and still don't see the big deal.

[grendi 16]

i have an l-code with R&P and a S-Code with stock power steering.

the s-code might be faster on the highway, but if the road is curvy, he doesn't have a chance, and there are a lot of curvy roads in switzerland :biggrin:

 

one of the most beautiful examples can be found in the attachment

[jmlay 80]

Has anyone tried the new option from Borgeson?

 

http://www.borgeson.com/mustang.html

[69gmachine 15]

If you're happy with your stock set up, you should leave it alone.

 

Most if not all of us who switched had a bad experience with the stock set up which made us look for something better. Most of us have reported a night and day difference.

 

I had stock PS that wandered all over the road with almost no feedback. The gearbox was rebuilt by one of the big name performance rebuilders, and it made absolutely no difference in feel or response. The stock suspension had terrible bump steer that was very noticeable. When you add low aspect ratio tires, there is no slip angle to hide the sins of the factory geometry. Switching to a well designed r&p provides excellent driver feedback, immediate steering response, reduced if not eliminated bump steer, and no leaks.

 

But again, if you're happy with what you have there is no need to change anything.

[cphsonic 11]

I've driven the same car with stock manual (best you could get & adjust) and manual R&P. What a difference! Especially center "slop" and overall "springyness" almost disappeared. Excuse my bad english, but you get the meaning I hope. :whistling:

[danno 128]

To the reply to Max Power, have you ever driven a R & P converted car? I could come over and let you see what it is like. Your opinion might be of value because you seem to be comfortable with the old system. If someone satisfied with the old system would see the value of a new system, that could say a lot.

[Stanger69 16]

Anyone near charlotte, I would love to see a R&P in person and feel the difference. I hate my stock PS...it sucks. All the suspension upgrades and I can't even enjoy it. I can feel the tightness of the new suspension components but the PS scares the crap out of me to even push it too hard. Thanks...

[LSG 15]

I am begining to think that most of the fellows who think R&P is great are guys who have some kind of problem, whether they knew it or not, with the stock system.

I have driven R&P equipped cars, admittedly not an old stang, but new ones ( fox chassis ) and others, and wonder what is all the fuss about ? My '69 has what I believe to be the original box and powersteering ram, I bought the car in 1980. It drives and steers as nicely as any new car I have driven.

I wonder if the folks who think R&P needed have check the preload on the factory steering box ? How about the rag joint ? Is your steering shaft too sloppy in the column ? Is the box tight on the frame ?

My power steering system doesn't leak, and never has. Maybe some of us just got lucky.

And lastly and maybe most importantly, what is your alignment set to ? It seems that a distressing number of cars are set up either to the factory specs, or what the alignment shop 'thinks' that you need. We must keep in mind that the factory and usually used specs are not intended for you to have fun and feel confident on the road. The factory specs are intended to maake the car understeer and feel squishy. The factory does this to discourage you from spirited driving. It seems to me that it would be cheaper to replace the rag joint, make sure the box is tight to the frame and has enough preload, and then run alignment something like- as close to zero toe as you can get, 1&1/2 or 2 degrees negative camber and at least, yes, at least 6 degrees positive caster. That and make sure you have a one piece export brace and montecarlo bar. You just might be amazed at the way the car feels. I can tell you I'm happy with mine. LSG

[grendi 16]

there's also people that can't differ pepsi from coke :biggrin:

[69gmachine 15]

I am begining to think that most of the fellows who think R&P is great are guys who have some kind of problem, whether they knew it or not, with the stock system.

 

And that is essentially why most of us switched. Most of the factory set ups have some sort of problem. You are truly fortunate to have found one of the 5 percent or so of the cars that had the gearbox set up properly (and the only one I've ever heard of that doesn't leak PS fluid) which may also explain why it has lasted so long.

 

When I finished the first restoration in '97 I used it as my daily driver for two years (although I only lived about 3 miles from work at the time). Absolutely everything in the front end had been replaced with new parts except the gearbox which was rebuilt. When I took it in to get the front end aligned because it was driving squirrelly, I was told every ball joint and tie rod end would need to be replaced before they would even try to align it. Only TWO years later! That was just unacceptable to me. I decided that the next time it drove, I would have modern suspension, brakes and steering. I will never go back to any version of the old 1956 Chevy saginaw steering design.

[Angel 24]

there's also people that can't differ pepsi from coke :biggrin:

 

hahaha! nice.

 

question. when you guys talk about leaking ps fluid, are you guys talking about actual components? or simply hoses? ive never replaced or rebuilt any component of the ps system and in the five years worth of daily driving(about 40k miles), the only time i ever had a leak was when my pressure hose dragged on the ground and burst. i replaced it and its been leak free since.