The vertues of originality

[xplane 10]

Some excellent points in this discussion, very well put coz, Pakrat, and fvike.

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My father and I saved several rare cars that were one step from the crusher, when we were restoring for fun. We saw it as a challenge, not a way to make money. I no longer have the extra time to tackle major projects, only to enjoy for a short while and then move to the next project.

<o:p></o:p>

My hobbies are my outlet. Time in the garage after work or on the weekend is my time, and this helps me unwind. I have focused my efforts on a handful of cars I will keep and enjoy. I have specifically tried to purchase cars which were different, clean, not abused, and not highly desirable models. I don’t want the same car as everybody else, I prefer the individualism that makes my car stand out from the crowd. Not everybody has to agree with my choices, but that doesn’t bother me. Trust me, I hear it from my dad all the time. He has come to accept this, but I still hear about it!

<o:p></o:p>

I say we are only here on this earth for a short time, so enjoy your project the way YOU want. The museums are full of time capsules.

Edited April 16, 2009 by xplane

[xplane 10]

Some excellent points in this discussion, very well put coz, Pakrat, and fvike.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

My father and I saved several rare cars that were one step from the crusher, when we were restoring for fun. We saw it as a challenge, not a way to make money. I no longer have the extra time to tackle major projects, only to enjoy for a short while and then move to the next project.

<o:p></o:p>

My hobbies are my outlet. Time in the garage after work or on the weekend is my time, and this helps me unwind. I have focused my efforts on a handful of cars I will keep and enjoy. I have specifically tried to purchase cars which were different, clean, not abused, and not highly desirable models. I don’t want the same car as everybody else, I prefer the individualism that makes my car stand out from the crowd. Not everybody has to agree with my choices, but that doesn’t bother me. Trust me, I hear it from my dad all the time. He has come to accept this, but I still hear about it!

<o:p></o:p>

I say we are only here on this earth for a short time, so enjoy your project the way YOU want. The museums are full of time capsules.

Edited April 16, 2009 by xplane

[Thunder Kiss 13]

A hot rodded 1932 Ford is worth a lot more than an original one.

One day, a hot rodded Mustang will also be worth more than a standard one. That "one day" will be when all the old timers who preach originality are gone.

 

Personally, I like the original look, but I'm happy to modify my car in ways to improve performance and safety.

 

Having said that, if I had a rare car like a Boss or Shelby, I'd keep it original.

[Thunder Kiss 13]

A hot rodded 1932 Ford is worth a lot more than an original one.

One day, a hot rodded Mustang will also be worth more than a standard one. That "one day" will be when all the old timers who preach originality are gone.

 

Personally, I like the original look, but I'm happy to modify my car in ways to improve performance and safety.

 

Having said that, if I had a rare car like a Boss or Shelby, I'd keep it original.

[cphsonic 11]

Here's my point of view.

If it's something you've bought for your own enjoyment: Do whatever you'd like and don't look back. Who is this car for... you or someone else? Drive it, enjoy it, and ask the "stock is best" guys where their cars are.

 

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that I'm never going to sell my car. So why worry about resale value?

 

I do agree tho with a couple of points mentioned earlier:

- Try to avoid modifying the rare classics.

- Keep the mods tasteful. A classy modification will still be cool in 20 years. 22's, a huge wing, and spaceship-like colored lights won't.

 

Subscribe one. :cool2: This discussion is going on in every car club and forum about once a year, lol. I'm just happy that there are cars enough, and people of all persuasions to enjoy them! Hats off to the original restorers, as long as they drive them and show them for all to appreciate.

 

Personally 2 (car) things make me happy: engineering challenges and trackdays. I just happen to have caught the V8 bug as a kid and have fallen in love with 69 Mustangs later. 2nd choice is 70-72 Camaros/Firebirds btw.

Edited April 17, 2009 by cphsonic

[cphsonic 11]

Here's my point of view.

If it's something you've bought for your own enjoyment: Do whatever you'd like and don't look back. Who is this car for... you or someone else? Drive it, enjoy it, and ask the "stock is best" guys where their cars are.

 

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that I'm never going to sell my car. So why worry about resale value?

 

I do agree tho with a couple of points mentioned earlier:

- Try to avoid modifying the rare classics.

- Keep the mods tasteful. A classy modification will still be cool in 20 years. 22's, a huge wing, and spaceship-like colored lights won't.

 

Subscribe one. :cool2: This discussion is going on in every car club and forum about once a year, lol. I'm just happy that there are cars enough, and people of all persuasions to enjoy them! Hats off to the original restorers, as long as they drive them and show them for all to appreciate.

 

Personally 2 (car) things make me happy: engineering challenges and trackdays. I just happen to have caught the V8 bug as a kid and have fallen in love with 69 Mustangs later. 2nd choice is 70-72 Camaros/Firebirds btw.

Edited April 17, 2009 by cphsonic

[69gmachine 15]

I just drove 3436 miles from California to Maryland in my '69 Mach 1 in just 2 weeks (the California excursion was not part of the MAA tour, but I wanted to say I went from coast to coast). There were a couple of 69s that did it with totally stock ignitions, drivetrains and suspensions (truly brave souls!). They traveled at the back of the pack, but they made it. I was able to keep up with the late model cars (with the exception of a few who drove insanely over the speed limit). I'd be lying if I claimed my car was as comfortable as a new car, but with my aftermarket seats it was comfortable enough for me. With a leaf spring rear suspension it can get pretty rough on bumpy roads. At 80+ mph the wind and engine noise is deafening. The new cars are whisper quiet. But when we pulled into a gas station or hotel anywhere the results were always the same. People walked past the new cars to look at my car, tell me their Mustang story, and generally give me a thumbs up. I plan to do it again in 5 years, and I'll make even more modifications: a coil over rear suspension, LOTS more sound deadener, and a better radio (although it will be an old Ford radio on the outside, it will have all modern guts and be MP3 capable). The Mustang more than any other car was designed to be individualized with tons of options. If that wasn't enough you could special order all kinds of things and buy stuff over the counter at the dealers. Because my car is a real Mach 1, I don't want to hack it up with MII type suspension changes, but I drive the wheels off of it, and the 4 wdb, r&p steering, coil over front suspension, electronic ignition and 5 speed OD trans make it not only fun to drive, but just as capable and reliable as the new cars. It will be way more cool for the next 30 years. Then the new Mustangs will pass into "classic" status. I'll just have been there for a lot longer.

Edited April 21, 2009 by 69gmachine
spelling

[69gmachine 15]

I just drove 3436 miles from California to Maryland in my '69 Mach 1 in just 2 weeks (the California excursion was not part of the MAA tour, but I wanted to say I went from coast to coast). There were a couple of 69s that did it with totally stock ignitions, drivetrains and suspensions (truly brave souls!). They traveled at the back of the pack, but they made it. I was able to keep up with the late model cars (with the exception of a few who drove insanely over the speed limit). I'd be lying if I claimed my car was as comfortable as a new car, but with my aftermarket seats it was comfortable enough for me. With a leaf spring rear suspension it can get pretty rough on bumpy roads. At 80+ mph the wind and engine noise is deafening. The new cars are whisper quiet. But when we pulled into a gas station or hotel anywhere the results were always the same. People walked past the new cars to look at my car, tell me their Mustang story, and generally give me a thumbs up. I plan to do it again in 5 years, and I'll make even more modifications: a coil over rear suspension, LOTS more sound deadener, and a better radio (although it will be an old Ford radio on the outside, it will have all modern guts and be MP3 capable). The Mustang more than any other car was designed to be individualized with tons of options. If that wasn't enough you could special order all kinds of things and buy stuff over the counter at the dealers. Because my car is a real Mach 1, I don't want to hack it up with MII type suspension changes, but I drive the wheels off of it, and the 4 wdb, r&p steering, coil over front suspension, electronic ignition and 5 speed OD trans make it not only fun to drive, but just as capable and reliable as the new cars. It will be way more cool for the next 30 years. Then the new Mustangs will pass into "classic" status. I'll just have been there for a lot longer.

Edited April 21, 2009 by 69gmachine
spelling

[Pakrat 1,043]

I'll tell ya what bugs me the most out of all of it, the fact that it is a one way street. You round up any group of modifiers and show them a group of stock as a rock cars and you almost never hear negative comments or insults. They get it, they admire it, drool over it and appreciate it as much as they do their own crowd. Try bringing a group of purists to view your group of restomods though and whoaho nelly, look out. Yet modders are the ones who get shit on and frowned at all the time, it's just too bad the respect door doesn't swing both ways, I guess the term "pure" just doesn't apply to the hearts and souls of the drivers as it does their cars. Nazi's were purists too weren'ty they? Maybe one day all restomods will have to wear little yellow stars on their cars too.

[Pakrat 1,043]

I'll tell ya what bugs me the most out of all of it, the fact that it is a one way street. You round up any group of modifiers and show them a group of stock as a rock cars and you almost never hear negative comments or insults. They get it, they admire it, drool over it and appreciate it as much as they do their own crowd. Try bringing a group of purists to view your group of restomods though and whoaho nelly, look out. Yet modders are the ones who get shit on and frowned at all the time, it's just too bad the respect door doesn't swing both ways, I guess the term "pure" just doesn't apply to the hearts and souls of the drivers as it does their cars. Nazi's were purists too weren'ty they? Maybe one day all restomods will have to wear little yellow stars on their cars too.

[xplane 10]

69gmachine

when we pulled into a gas station or hotel anywhere the results were always the same. People walked past the new cars to look at my car, tell me their Mustang story, and generally give me a thumbs up.

 

Amen...

 

I plan to do it again in 5 years

 

My father (Texas), brother (Ohio), and Myself (California), have a promise to all drive our vintage mustangs to the 50th, hope to see you all there. Wherever there is!

 

Mike

[xplane 10]

69gmachine

when we pulled into a gas station or hotel anywhere the results were always the same. People walked past the new cars to look at my car, tell me their Mustang story, and generally give me a thumbs up.

 

Amen...

 

I plan to do it again in 5 years

 

My father (Texas), brother (Ohio), and Myself (California), have a promise to all drive our vintage mustangs to the 50th, hope to see you all there. Wherever there is!

 

Mike

[Crazyhorse 21]

I hope to be able to drive mine to the 50th too. I've got a long ways to go in the next 5 years though...

[Crazyhorse 21]

I hope to be able to drive mine to the 50th too. I've got a long ways to go in the next 5 years though...

[xplane 10]

Crazyhorse

I've got a long ways to go in the next 5 years though...

 

Me too, mine is still coming apart instead of going together.

[xplane 10]

Crazyhorse

I've got a long ways to go in the next 5 years though...

 

Me too, mine is still coming apart instead of going together.

[Crazyhorse 21]

Me too, mine is still coming apart instead of going together.

 

Yes!!! I'm finally ahead of someone on my project! Mine's all the way apart (has been for 12 years) and I'm finally starting to collect parts to get rolling on it again. I'm trying to get all of the sheetmetal that I'll need to weld in together, then do it all in a block, then move onto the next set of projects...

[Crazyhorse 21]

Me too, mine is still coming apart instead of going together.

 

Yes!!! I'm finally ahead of someone on my project! Mine's all the way apart (has been for 12 years) and I'm finally starting to collect parts to get rolling on it again. I'm trying to get all of the sheetmetal that I'll need to weld in together, then do it all in a block, then move onto the next set of projects...

[xplane 10]

Maybe we can caravan from CA, to the celebration!

 

Did you make it to Knott's last Sunday?

[xplane 10]

Maybe we can caravan from CA, to the celebration!

 

Did you make it to Knott's last Sunday?

[69gmachine 15]

My father (Texas), brother (Ohio), and Myself (California), have a promise to all drive our vintage mustangs to the 50th, hope to see you all there. Wherever there is!

 

Mike

 

I sincerely hope to see all of you on the next trip. The new cars outnumbered the classics somewhere around 8 to 1. I didn't go last time, but I understand it was much closer to a 50/50 split. Crazyhorse, make a plan and stick to it. Make it realistic and don't get sidetracked. It's very easy to change directions while putting these cars back together because there are so many options available. Keep us posted on your progress, and we'll try to keep you motivated.

[69gmachine 15]

My father (Texas), brother (Ohio), and Myself (California), have a promise to all drive our vintage mustangs to the 50th, hope to see you all there. Wherever there is!

 

Mike

 

I sincerely hope to see all of you on the next trip. The new cars outnumbered the classics somewhere around 8 to 1. I didn't go last time, but I understand it was much closer to a 50/50 split. Crazyhorse, make a plan and stick to it. Make it realistic and don't get sidetracked. It's very easy to change directions while putting these cars back together because there are so many options available. Keep us posted on your progress, and we'll try to keep you motivated.

[Armond 10]

Well I am late jumping in on this one. I for one am pretty much a original guy, but I do aprriciate the work that goes into all of the resto mod type cars. That being said, should I see a car turned into what I call a Circus wagon, over the top and it has the following numbers in it, G,R,Q or Z, I might shake my head. But again who the hell am I to say what you can do with your car? I can't say a thing............Please just don't make it to Gawdy! As a note I am looking for a pair of 15x7 or 15x8 US INDY mags, early style with the screw on caps. Like the ones on my high school car, 69 coupe. 70's style! I bought a 69 6 banger last fall as a driver and I am thinking of recreating my old car. I have the 14x7 front INDY's. 14's in front 15's in back, this is old school 70's..........

[Armond 10]

Well I am late jumping in on this one. I for one am pretty much a original guy, but I do aprriciate the work that goes into all of the resto mod type cars. That being said, should I see a car turned into what I call a Circus wagon, over the top and it has the following numbers in it, G,R,Q or Z, I might shake my head. But again who the hell am I to say what you can do with your car? I can't say a thing............Please just don't make it to Gawdy! As a note I am looking for a pair of 15x7 or 15x8 US INDY mags, early style with the screw on caps. Like the ones on my high school car, 69 coupe. 70's style! I bought a 69 6 banger last fall as a driver and I am thinking of recreating my old car. I have the 14x7 front INDY's. 14's in front 15's in back, this is old school 70's..........

[bnickel 10,004]

Well I am late jumping in on this one. I for one am pretty much a original guy, but I do aprriciate the work that goes into all of the resto mod type cars. That being said, should I see a car turned into what I call a Circus wagon, over the top and it has the following numbers in it, G,R,Q or Z, I might shake my head. But again who the hell am I to say what you can do with your car? I can't say a thing............Please just don't make it to Gawdy! As a note I am looking for a pair of 15x7 or 15x8 US INDY mags, early style with the screw on caps. Like the ones on my high school car, 69 coupe. 70's style! I bought a 69 6 banger last fall as a driver and I am thinking of recreating my old car. I have the 14x7 front INDY's. 14's in front 15's in back, this is old school 70's..........

 

 

nowe thta's what i'm talking about right there. mod the hell outta the low end cars and restore the rarer cars to stock and the concours restore the really rare one. my 69 GT coupe is a mild restomod with shelby vert side scoops, 17" edelbrock 454 wheels, slightly modified 351w, stiffer springs and shocks and bigger front sway bar but it still looks like 1969 other than the wheels, right down to the completely stock but non original deluxe interior with high back buckets and non stock but original acapulco blue paint.

 

what really kills me though is that at the show i was at this past weekend my car got another award, it's gotten one at all but one show it's been to, and beat out a completely stock restored candyapple red 69 cj mach 1, and at the same show last year it beat out another red 69 mach 1 that was even more modified than my car. not sure why but for some reason the car show judges just seem to not like red 69 mach 1's so much...kinda weird really and the other thing that kills me is that both of those cars were built by pro restorers and my car was built by me. in feel really proud that my car has beat out a lot of really nice cars before but i can't really understand why...any way whatever, i don't really care so much about car show awards as i do just driving the car but it sure does feel nice to get them when it happens.

 

my feelings on the subject of stock vs modified is that at long as it looks like stock or fairly close to stock it's fine regardless of other mods. that's not to say that i don't absolutely love the full on pro-touring cars or the trailer queen concours restored cars but i like to drive my cars and anything that makes them more comfortable, handle better, be more efficent and/or more powerful, or just generally drive better than original is the kind of stuff i like as long as the car still looks stock or fairly close to stock is what i like the best.

 

when i start in on the 69 cougar i'm going to make it look like a 69 GT Cougar, which got dropped from the cougar line-up in 69. i have most of the specs for what would have been included in the GT equipment group for the 69 cougar which is basically the same as what the 69 mustang GT equipment included with a few exceptions and according to Marti there were some 4,000 69 cougars built with the GT equipment group even though they are not really GT cougars. my goal is to replicate what a 69 Cougar GT would have been if Mercury had made them the way they had intended to had they not dropped it from the line-up. however i'll also be adding lot's of aftermarket parts and build the car how i envision it would have been bought originally and modified over the years with stuff from the 60's, 70's, 80's 90's and now with an emphasis on the 70's, 90's and present.

 

i have a 69 ford muscle parts intake, a 1.19 venturi autolite 4100, several 70's ignition systems to choose from, 80's mustang GT bucket seats that will be recovered to resemble original 69 style upholstery, a TCP rack and pinion, a vintage Hone-O-Drive unit, a factory rear defogger, original OTC style cruise control setup, 70's XR7 leather wrapped sport steering wheel, original style tilt column, 68 mustang overhead console and other stock and early aftermarket type stuff plus i'll also add an original style front spoiler, eliminator hood scoop and ram air seal, hood pins, 69 cougar sport special rocker trim, TCP G-Bar rear suspension, custom Opentracker roller front end with coilovers, 69 T/A Boss 302 style front disc brakes, big 11" rear drums, trunk mounted luggage rack, original style trailer hitch and 15" GT wheels along with my 80's style 15" Riken mesh wheels and original style power windows. i may even add a shelby style roll bar and 4 point harnesses. the overall effect of the car will be that it was bought new and kept in nice condition with a long list of aftermarket and original style parts added throughout the years without losing the effect of an original looking car.