Clevor Engine...(Mock Boss)

[flight96 14]

I am thinking about doing this mod to the 69 Vert.... What do you guys think of this? There is a place that sells them as a turnkey crate for a very good price (http://www.heartlandenginebuilders.com/) $3690.00 for 400+ hp and you get that BOSS look in the engine bay. I could probably use my own block and have the machine shop here in Victoria do the conversion. Edelbrock has all the parts for the mod including aluminum Cleveland heads. Or I could just use cast 2V heads for a lot cheaper. Then use their intake and gasket kit.

Any thoughts??? I am seriously looking at this mod.

 

Thanks for any info !!

[ForceFed70 14]

From a purely performance perspective, your better off going with a 351W and a set of good aftermarket aluminum heads.

 

If you want that boss look... well you have to decide if it's worth it then. 99 out of 100 people wouldn't be able to identify it as a clevor without a label.

[bnickel 10,004]

with teh right heads you can make as much or more power with a clevor than with most any aftermarket head, but the right heads are damn expensive. that said you can make great power with a stock or mild stroker and a set of aussie 2v heads, about equal to what most $1500 or more aftermarket windsor heads will do on the same shortblock for a lot less money but your intake choices are extremely limited. i'm personally waiting for E'brock to or someone to make a GT-40 style EFI lower intake for a clevor, then watch me smoke some LSx motors!!!!!!!

[SlimeGold 69 15]

i'm personally waiting for E'brock to or someone to make a GT-40 style EFI lower intake for a clevor, then watch me smoke some LSx motors!!!!!!!

 

Look at these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ADAPTER-PLATE-KIT-351C-HEADS-ON-302-351W-ENGINE-BLOCK_W0QQitemZ170288013448QQihZ007QQcategoryZ36474QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. Not sure how good they would work. I would think they would cause a serious port mis-match. But the seller claims you can run any SBF intake, even EFI on a Clevor or Boss 302. Or here is the whole "kit". http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/302-boss-heads-clevor-351w-306-331-347-sbf-ford-408_W0QQitemZ170289342377QQihZ007QQcategoryZ33617QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Edited December 24, 2008 by SlimeGold 69

[flight96 14]

Well I have found a set of 2v clevland heads (1972)...actually its a complete engine and trans (C6)...I got him down to $300.00 for both. The Edlebrock intake (Part #7183) and complete gasket set (Part # EDL-7377 ) run around $450.00. All I need now is a set KB110 pistons and I think I'll give it a try.

 

The only thing I'm a little iffy on is the deck height for my Windsor block. On the KB site it states... "Pre-'71 blocks have a .020' shorter deck height and do not provide adequate stock for squaring or decking the block..." My block is a 69, so Im not too sure what this means for me...Im just a stupid bodyman/painter....not a mechanic.... :huh:

[bnickel 10,004]

it means that their pistons are designed for zero-decked 71 and later blocks. zero-decked means that the pistons and block-head faces are flush with each other, the piston is not below or above the deck face.

 

69/70 blocks can't be zero-decked with their pistons, does that mean you can't run them in a block that isn't zero-decked? maybe, maybe not but if you do run them the pistons may be above the block deck surface. now this not always a bad thing because it will increase compression but it will cost you some quench and some valve-piston clearance if it does stick above the deck.

 

asking this question to the K-B tech support guys will get you the same answer. if worse comes to worst you coul always have the pistons machined down some but be careful you aren't going to get too close to the piston ringlands

[LSG 15]

Flight, what is your goal here ? And where do you live ? The Clevor can be great, we've done them. 25 or 30 years ago, they were your only choice to have an arse kicking 302. But we have so many options now. If the boss 302 appearance is your goal, you might consider keeping the 351C -2V. Add an aluminum intake and the right valve covers, and 999 people out of one thousand can't tell, and most of those won't understand the differance even if you explain it to them. You could stroke the 351C out to 393 or more if you wanted to............

You also have more options for a 302 than just the Edel manifolds. The Clevor engine, IIRC, was Gary Roughley's idea. He ran an ad in super Ford to gauge interest and then started casting 302 'street boss' and 'track boss' manifolds....followed by 351W versions. The first dual plane street boss SF built made 388 HP. The track boss version made more than 400. I like Gary's manifolds because they have a more correct look for the time period in which our cars were built. My manifold has a big 'STREET BOSS' logo cast into it. Gary has retired, I believe, but one of his nephews has the molds and can cast you a new intake. And some times they are floating around used, but no, I won't sell mine. I think they're great.

Are you planning on racing, or are you just looking to have respectable performance while looking very cool ? The Clevor can be made to do whatever you want.........:biggrin: LSG

[flight96 14]

Hey LSG,

Thanks for the info. I live in Victoria, BC...Canada...

My goal is to have respectable performance while looking very cool !!! The original engine the car has is the 351W(M code 4V). I was thinking of using that block with the Cleveland 2v heads. But now that you bring it up, I could just use the complete 351C like you mentioned. I have heard that the Windsor block has better oiling than the Cleveland. However I will not be 'racing' the car, it will be a street car. I like the idea of having a Boss vert look.

What would I have to do to the car to put the complete 351C in. Is it not a lot heavier than the Windsor? I am putting in new springs and KYB gas adjust shocks already. Also are the motor mounts the same ??

I guess basically the question is...Cleveland or Windsor ??

[LSG 15]

Flight, I'll presume you're going to use gasoline for fuel.....I prefer E85, but Vancouver doesn't have any on the Canada side of things. Yes the Cleveland is a bit heavier, but not enough to matter. The mounts and Bell are the same.

I've seen a real 302 Boss dropped into a convertable, it looked very very good. But it only looked good, the idiot used an automatic tranny and 3.00 gears in the axle. The Boss wasn't happy there, it didn't drive nearly as well as it looked. We ( the shop I've worked for ) built a 302 street boss for a guy in a fastback with a 4 speed, and it was awesome.

You are correct that the windsor has better oiling, and the blocks have thicker walls. Windsors don't mind being bored .060, but I wouldn't want to bore a cleveland more than .030.

Either engine will do just fine, but the Clevor would certainly be more interesting. If you're going to buy a new aluminum intake anyway......why not do the Clevor ? You'll need to drill some holes and block some others, but it isn't difficult. If you really want to have some fun, build a street boss with a 4 inch crank kit. You'll have to tell the piston company what heads you're using, they can make whatever shape you need. The extra inches will make a nice increase in torque that you will feel even at lower rpms. LSG

[flight96 14]

Yup...I am leaning toward the Clevor. Dare to be different !! If there is any advice on the mod you can pass on I would greatly appreciate it. I'm gonna go with the 2v heads, Edelbrock intake and KB110 pistons. The other issue will be the cam. With my 69 block I don't believe I have a lot of room to play with with the deck height.

[mcgirr455 10]

A buddy of mine has a new Track Boss 351 intake for that mod that I know that he will part with. Send me an e mail or call me @ 541-969-8705 PST Days, no late calls

[flight96 14]

PM sent.....

[flight96 14]

Here's a question that I can't find the answer to. What pushrods do I use ? I'm guessing Cleveland rods.....

[jmlay 80]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=clevor+heads&btnG=Google+Search&aq=5&oq=clevor

[418mach 10]

Flight96 it really depends on your goals the amount of hp you could make from the clevor imo wont suit a vert because it doesnt stop at the firewall and it will cost more in the end u will be upgrading the drive line and running big exhaust maybe twin 3" and stiffening the body these are some of the other issues to consider. my half unfinnished project is a 69 vert i intend to run a tame 347 as the orig motor was a 302. but if you go ahead with the trackboss manifold has the retro appearance and will keep the otherall height down thats what i got hold of to do my 418 it suits the heads and the air cleaner is thru the hood but just under the scoop of the Mach 1 if i used bigger heads it would have needed bigger intake to benefit. now looking to modify the manifold for efi with 4v throttle body. the pistons are forged Probes my H beams are 6.250 but i used a 78w block the next size down are 6.200 which i believe would suit a 69 block decked and squared. the length of pushrods should be done when setting up the valve gear a rockers to get the correct geometry. if you are like me if you want to do it you wont be happy till its done.

[Mufflerbearing 0]

I used to have a Cross Boss intake for a Clevor I built years ago. Worked pretty well.

[flight96 14]

I have the Pistons ordered from KB (KB110 Hyper Flat tops .030). I'm going to be using the Edelbrock 7183 intake and 2V Cleveland heads. After much research I found the gaskets to use are the Fel-Pro # 1021's for the heads and Edelbrock says their 7265 is the correct gasket for the intake to head. I am looking at Crane's Rockers (Part # 27750-16) with THIS cam.

The block and heads are at the machine shop getting cleaned and magged. The gaskets should be here by the end of the week. Then the drilling can be done. The pistons are a little back ordered (2 weeks) and the intake is also 2 to 4 weeks out but that's OK. I am in no rush for the engine just yet.

[stangme428 33]

Great to see another clevor build!! :punk:

 

I have the Pistons ordered from KB (KB110 Hyper Flat tops .030). I'm going to be using the Edelbrock 7183 intake and 2V Cleveland heads. After much research I found the gaskets to use are the Fel-Pro # 1021's for the heads and Edelbrock says their 7265 is the correct gasket for the intake to head. I am looking at Crane's Rockers (Part # 27750-16) with THIS cam.

The block and heads are at the machine shop getting cleaned and magged. The gaskets should be here by the end of the week. Then the drilling can be done. The pistons are a little back ordered (2 weeks) and the intake is also 2 to 4 weeks out but that's OK. I am in no rush for the engine just yet.

[flight96 14]

All I need now is to find some pistons !!:scared:

[ushman 10]

I've got a 69 sportsroof with a clevor engine I had built about 20 years ago. It's the original 302 block with a set of 351c heads and Street Boss intake. I got the heads and intake from P.A.W. I didn't know it at the time but the heads were open chamber so I had to get a custom set of pistons from Arias. They are huge dome tops with valve reliefs.

 

The engine builder I used did not drill out the water passages and the motor ran hot all the time. One piston finally started knocking and I had it replaced and drilled the holes out on the heads.

 

It's been sitting idle in my garage for the past 20 years and I'm hoping to get it started back up soon. Keep us updated on the progress.

[flight96 14]

...I think Im making this harder than it needs to be. Why couldn't I just use 351C 2V pistons ????

Edited January 22, 2009 by flight96

[Crazyhorse 21]

...I think Im making this harder than it needs to be. Why couldn't I just use 351C 2V pistons ????

 

you'll wind up with a lower compression ratio, because the compression height of the cleveland pistons is shorter...

[flight96 14]

you'll wind up with a lower compression ratio, because the compression height of the cleveland pistons is shorter...

 

 

But it would still work right ? If so, would a little longer rod compensate for the shorter piston ?

In this article they use straight 351C 2V pistons and say they are getting 10:1 CR

 

Maybe boss 302 pistons ??????

Edited January 22, 2009 by flight96

[Chappy 18]

I am thinking about doing this mod to the 69 Vert.... What do you guys think of this? There is a place that sells them as a turnkey crate for a very good price (http://www.heartlandenginebuilders.com/) $3690.00 for 400+ hp and you get that BOSS look in the engine bay. I could probably use my own block and have the machine shop here in Victoria do the conversion. Edelbrock has all the parts for the mod including aluminum Cleveland heads. Or I could just use cast 2V heads for a lot cheaper. Then use their intake and gasket kit.

Any thoughts??? I am seriously looking at this mod.

 

Thanks for any info !!

 

Just as a side note from these discussions... I would not purchase a motor from these guys. Check out this website...

 

http://www.stordahl.com/heartlandfraud.html

 

Basically this guy has been 'rebuilding' motors for quite a while that haven't been delivered as promised. Read that website, do some more searching, you'll see this is a guy you don't want to get involved with. I've had more than one person I know locally here get burned by this guy over the past 10 years. BTW I live in Indianapolis, so I can confirm what is on that page about the shop and the people. He has been trying to sell motors over the net for all of those years, I think the company has changed names 6-7 times now to keep away the bad press.

 

Also of note, IF you get a motor from them, it won't have the hp they are stating either. Take what they have posted, divide it by two and that might be what the motor puts out at the CRANK! At best most of these motors are a stock rebuild...

[coz 108]

Great catch Chappy....

 

Guys - do your research.... When I was looking around to have my engine built I almost went with a guy out of Long Island. Sounded like a good deal with good parts and the guy talked a good game. Just prior to sending him my 30% down payment I did a search on his company and found countless BBB issues, leans, dirty business practices, etc...

 

So I held off on sending the check. I get a call from the guy and I explain the reason for backing out. He started to cuss me out and got real mean... Of course, 3 seconds later he got a dial tone. 6 months later he was indicted in NY for fraud and embezzlement.

 

Flight96 - I recommend visiting the 351C forum http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419 They talk all things Clevland including Clevors. There is some incredible experience on the forum and they are very open to explaining builds and recommending work and builders. I ended up going with MME. They are one of the premier Ford Cleveland and FE builders in the country. Mark at MME will help you with parts to a complete engine. He offers great insight into making the engine perform as YOU want it - not some cookie cutter builder that exagerates their HP numbers and has the one engine fits all mentality.

Edited January 23, 2009 by coz