Top end build

[jawmarq 3]

Brand new here, looking for advice/ confirmation on my plan. 

Have a 69 fastback that I'm looking to bring back to life after sitting for the last almost 50 years. My step father parked it after it burnt a valve in '75.It has been on jack stands since. It has approx 60k on it, a close ratio 4sp pulled from something else at a junkyard. 

Id like to put a fresh and performance top end on it to ger it going again. Ideally keep the stock bottom end for now, mostly to get it on the pavement before my old man kicks the can. Ideally built to be a tire fryer with less than 10% freeway use. Possibly stroke it to a 392 in the future if the top end  isn't enough. And as always, best bang for buck. Not necessarily cheap, but don't need absolute best either. 

Thinking AFR or TF 190 heads, 56cc ish, weiand stealth intake,  maybe Howard retrofit hydraulic roller cams, ( I need to do more homework to figure the numbers) , can I use a non hydro roller cam in the AFR heads and upgrade later? Then after I figure out cam figure out roller rockers. Also have to figure out exhaust. It does have msd ignition of some sort on it now. And I believe a 650cfm carb. Will upsize carb if needed.

 

Does this sound like an alright plan? Seems like this place has some guys that really know their stuff, and I could certainly use some tips on this.  

 

 

 

[Mach1 Driver 617]

Our old girls will never be a 1000 hp ZR1, but you can definitely pep them up and have fun doing it, so here are my two cents.

So if you are planning on bumping it to 392 in the future it must be a 351w. Is it a 2V or 4V? The 4Vs have higher compression. Keep in mind that a 351w in a 69 doesn't have a lot of hood clearance when planning for a intake and air cleaner. The stock manifold in either 2v or 4v is only 3" tall. If you don't mind drop down air cleaners its not a big issue. The carb would pencil out at 550, but 650 won't kill it. I like the Summit M2008 series because they fixed all the problems of a Holley and they were actually designed by them.

AFR has been owned by an investment firm for a few years now and I haven't heard how that has affected the products, but TF is still good as far as I know, and new aluminum heads will definitely wake it up. If you go with roller rockers be sure to get a high quality set. When one of those comes apart it dumps a lot of parts in the engine.

I know most people go with headers, but tests show that they really don't help all that much and are not as quiet as cast iron manifolds. IMO, A big lumpy cam, headers and loud mufflers will make you smile only if you drive it for short distances and don't plan on talking or listening to tunes while doing it. It depends on how you are going to drive it. Back in the day, most muscle cars had a nice rumble, but still allowed conversation.

If you don't mind changing points occasionally, you don't have to go with an electronic ignition. They raced these things with points, and nothing electronic lasts for 60 years. Proof of this is that none of these cars have the original radios- they died long ago. The only thing an electronic ignition will do is relieve your wallet- it won't make it run better.

Once you get it running again, you will want to do the Arning drop to fix the pathetic Falcon suspension in these cars. This type of suspension is designed for hydraulic shocks. Roller perches are the highest recommended upgrade.

https://www.youtube.com/user/EatonDetroitSpring

[RPM 1,274]

Welcome to the forum. I recommend doing as little as possible to get it running while your dad is still around. 

I have had a 750, 680, and currently a 600 cfm Summit M2008 carb on my stroked 393 with AFR 185 heads. The 600 is plenty of carb, and it has never run better than right now. I have a small 268 hydraulic flat tappit cam, and still had to fly cut the pistons to clear the 2.10 valves. 

Mach1 Driver is correct about the 2v (H code) and 4v (M code) having different compression ratios, the M code 4v had 10.7:1 I believe, and 290hp, which ain't bad. 

Just remember when you change one thing on these cars, it affects three others, which you have to address. 

Good luck on getting her back to burning rubber.

[jawmarq 3]

On 2/1/2025 at 3:57 AM, Mach1 Driver said:

Our old girls will never be a 1000 hp ZR1, but you can definitely pep them up and have fun doing it, so here are my two cents.

So if you are planning on bumping it to 392 in the future it must be a 351w. Is it a 2V or 4V? The 4Vs have higher compression. Keep in mind that a 351w in a 69 doesn't have a lot of hood clearance when planning for a intake and air cleaner. The stock manifold in either 2v or 4v is only 3" tall. If you don't mind drop down air cleaners its not a big issue. The carb would pencil out at 550, but 650 won't kill it. I like the Summit M2008 series because they fixed all the problems of a Holley and they were actually designed by them.

It is a 351w 2v. I'm ok with a drop down filter as I really like the factory paint job it has. I'll have to take a look and see what Holley is on it right now, as I know not os aftermarket.

AFR has been owned by an investment firm for a few years now and I haven't heard how that has affected the products, but TF is still good as far as I know, and new aluminum heads will definitely wake it up. If you go with roller rockers be sure to get a high quality set. 

I think I would go with the Howard cam retrofit kit. Seems they are high quality?

I know most people go with headers, but tests show that they really don't help all that much and are not as quiet as cast iron manifolds. IMO, A big lumpy cam, headers and loud mufflers will make you smile only if you drive it for short distances and don't plan on talking or listening to tunes while doing it. It depends on how you are going to drive it. Back in the day, most muscle cars had a nice rumble, but still allowed conversation.

Ideally this will be a "race car" that will be driveable on the street. I got his 67 Lincoln up and running a few years ago, that is the quiet cruising car, and it is great for that.

If you don't mind changing points occasionally, you don't have to go with an electronic ignition. They raced these things with points, and nothing electronic lasts for 60 years. Proof of this is that none of these cars have the original radios- they died long ago. The only thing an electronic ignition will do is relieve your wallet- it won't make it run better.

It has an MSD of some sort on it from pre 75. Im hoping it's still usable.

Once you get it running again, you will want to do the Arning drop to fix the pathetic Falcon suspension in these cars. This type of suspension is designed for hydraulic shocks. Roller perches are the highest recommended upgrade.

https://www.youtube.com/user/EatonDetroitSpring

Thanks for this tip!

 

[jawmarq 3]

19 hours ago, RPM said:

Welcome to the forum. I recommend doing as little as possible to get it running while your dad is still around. 

I have had a 750, 680, and currently a 600 cfm Summit M2008 carb on my stroked 393 with AFR 185 heads. The 600 is plenty of carb, and it has never run better than right now. I have a small 268 hydraulic flat tappit cam, and still had to fly cut the pistons to clear the 2.10 valves. 

Mach1 Driver is correct about the 2v (H code) and 4v (M code) having different compression ratios, the M code 4v had 10.7:1 I believe, and 290hp, which ain't bad. 

Just remember when you change one thing on these cars, it affects three others, which you have to address. 

Good luck on getting her back to burning rubber.

Thanks, that is probably a good idea. This is a 2v, and looking at some of the top end kits, I just figure an extra 150+ HP with just the top end being done wouldn't be a bad deal. I currently have some time off work, which is a rarity, so I'm trying to get as big of head start on this as I can. 

[jawmarq 3]

Started on it today. Didn't make too much progress but did a few things. Spun the crank to make sure motor was free, removed the power steering and installed the manual steering adapter, and ordered high energy 268 cam,weiand stealth intake, 600cfm carb. Once I get the parts in/on I'll see what needs to happen with ignition.  Will be doing the arning drop as well. It currently has the stock log exhaust manifolds on it, but no other exhaust parts. I'm leaning towards long tubes, only because I see them highly recommended for that cam. Also, most of the interior will probably be coming out, as it's pretty janky. 

[Mach1 Driver 617]

4 hours ago, jawmarq said:

Will be doing the arning drop as well. It currently has the stock log exhaust manifolds on it, but no other exhaust parts. I'm leaning towards long tubes, only because I see them highly recommended for that cam. 

Also consider aftermarket "strut rods". Its a little terrifying to see how much the control arms move forward and back with stock strut rods. The suspension came from the Falcon, and is really pretty bad. Watch these two videos and you'll see why:

 

This shows after installing Street or Track: 

 

 

Also, FPA Ford Powertrain Applications are expensive long tube headers but generally well liked with no ground clearance issues 

[RPM 1,274]

On 2/4/2025 at 7:21 PM, jawmarq said:

Started on it today. Didn't make too much progress but did a few things. Spun the crank to make sure motor was free, removed the power steering and installed the manual steering adapter, and ordered high energy 268 cam,weiand stealth intake, 600cfm carb. Once I get the parts in/on I'll see what needs to happen with ignition.  Will be doing the arning drop as well. It currently has the stock log exhaust manifolds on it, but no other exhaust parts. I'm leaning towards long tubes, only because I see them highly recommended for that cam. Also, most of the interior will probably be coming out, as it's pretty janky. 

Exactly the same combo I used, with the exception of using a manual steering center link instead of the adapter. Easy to drive around town, and will spin the tires on demand. I did stroke mine to 393ci. Cuz, ya know, I have testosterone.

[jawmarq 3]

So I've got the cam installed, everything else ready to go on, ended up getting hooker comp long tubes, and I'm on the fence about getting aluminum heads for it before I gasket/bolt everything up. If I were to get AFRs with correct springs and rockers, any idea how much gain would they see over the stock C9OE heads,with this cam?

[RPM 1,274]

You can take this article for what it's worth. It's at least 25 years old and was in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords magazine.

[Mach1 Driver 617]

I found a video on what seems like the same engine and test?? This guy is a mad scientist:

 

[det0326 199]

didn't see any thing in the post about if it is a 351w or 351c. If you have a 2v Cleveland that's not to bad, if its a Windsor not so good. AFR will out flow either

[jawmarq 3]

Well some progress and some set backs. Ended up trying to fire it up today, after a little bit of cranking without start, spun the distributor a bit, and got it to fire up. That was a very short lived win, as within seconds of getting up to 2000rpm, the flex fan apparently grew a bit in size, hit and broke the shroud, sending shrapnel into the radiator, causing a few leaks. Shut down with less than 30 seconds running probably. Ordered new rad and electric fans, praying the cam will survive.

[RPM 1,274]

Sorry to hear that.

[TexasEd 213]

Sorry about the flex fan.  I can't tell you how much I love the copper radiator and clutch fan kit I got from West Coast Classic Cougar.  It looks pretty stock but it a big upgrade.

 

On 2/21/2025 at 6:32 PM, jawmarq said:

So I've got the cam installed, everything else ready to go on, ended up getting hooker comp long tubes, and I'm on the fence about getting aluminum heads for it before I gasket/bolt everything up. If I were to get AFRs with correct springs and rockers, any idea how much gain would they see over the stock C9OE heads,with this cam?

I got the TFS 11R heads with 53cc chambers on my Roller block 351W.  When I did the math on it and we took it to .030 over to clean up the cylinders the compression ended up between 9.64 to 10:1 calculated.  Anecdotal information says I'm probably at 400+ hp and my butt dyno says that it's probably double what I had before with my 302.  Maybe I'll get a dyno tune soon.

 

[TexasEd 213]

here is my build on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCWnt64RoB6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

351w Roller Block .030 over
Trick Flow Stage1 cam
Trick Flow 11R 170cc heads
Edelbrock RPM Performer intake
Quick Fuel Brawler 650 carb
Milodon oil pan
JBA stainless ceramic coated shorty headers
T5 from 92 Mustang
McLeod Pro Street clutch
Pro 5.0 shifter
Modern Driveline installation kit