Borgeson pitman arm issue

[smh00n 91]

I have converted my 70 to Borgeson.

While it was a factory power steer, I chose to use all manual steer linkages - drag link, idler and pitman arm. The idler is an Open Tracker roller, the drag link is a non genuine one I bought years ago and I used an ACP pitman arm, which is listed as being for 67-70 as it has the 1 1/8" sector shaft.

The drivers side is sitting about an inch down from the lower arm pivot point, and I am getting bump steer.

The LH side is good and lines up level with the lower arm pivot.

When comparing the 2 pitman arms, there is about an inch difference where it joins to the drag link, and there is my issue:

Manual steer, on the car  Power steer, off the car 

Can anyone confirm if the OEM Ford manual steer pitman arms are straight or kinked up? And if they are straight how is the geometry managed?

I first thought the pitman arm was not far enough up on the sector shaft, but there's fractions in it, not inches. And I beat on it when installing it so I don't think there's any more travel left.

Yes, I could change back to power steer linkages, but all the manual stuff is new and I don't particularly like the Borgeson ball stud adaptor (OCD peaks when I see it).

 

[aslanefe 348]

Manual pitman arm is straight on my 69. 

[RPM 1,258]

Yup, my pitman arm is flat without any offset. 

[smh00n 91]

Well that sucks. There is no way without putting a spacer on the drag link to raise it this thing will come up an inch.

 

[Cantedvalve 128]

Your center link upside down?

[smh00n 91]

20 minutes ago, Cantedvalve said:

Your center link upside down?

I will double check it but confident that cannot happen as the idler end has a welded stud.

My research today has discovered this.

The VMF forums has this thread which reveals that the Borgeson boxes are about 1/2" longer in the body. "But it shouldn't affect anything" they say. 

Couple that with the fact that I thought the splines for the pitman arm were a bit short as the nut is even with the threads meaning the arm itself is a bit lower than stock, and I have got about an inch difference in the pivot point of the lower control arm and the inner tie rod.

The only option I can see is to lower the idler arm to level the drag link, but that seems to be inclined to introduce more bump steer. I need to do more research on this, there is divided opinions on the interwebs.

Plan B is to use the Borgeson ball stud adaptor with the p/s links, but that is a $450 cost for me, which I am not prepared to spend on any more Borgeson products.

Plan C is to refit all the OEM stuff. Which makes sense as I had a period where I decided against the Borgeson conversion, went and bought all new hoses etc for the OEM setup, and I have a guy who knows how to rebuild these boxes 10 minutes up the road. I only fitted the Borgeson as I had it, could not sell it and thought I may as well coz everyone said they were great. Not with a manual steer car it seems.

[RPM 1,258]

I love my 16:1 Chocko rebuilt manual steer box. 

[Cantedvalve 128]

Idler end has a welded stud that can point up OR down depending on how you install it.  Not saying that is it, but worth a look.

[Vicfreg 800]

I have a '70 Convertible with the Borgeson conversion.  I used a manual steering Pitman Arm and Center Link.  Have no issues.  I will find some pictures.   I think my Pitman Arm is straight.

 

 

[Vicfreg 800]

Attached are pictures of my Manual Steering Pitman Arm.  It is flat.

I also have an Open Tracker roller idler arm.

I obviously switched to a manual center link.  

I may still have the Pitman Arm if you need it.  I would need to go over to my storage building.  You can send me a message if you want it.

 

 

 

[smh00n 91]

@Vicfreg That pictured arm is a power steer I think. The manuals have a ball joint on them.

I would be interested in seeing your car, specifically the pitman arm and the LH inner tie rod end and the lower control arm pivot.

My car has the driver side inner tie rod pivot lower than the RH side, and I am told that is the issue. A suggestion was to lower the idler to be level but I'm not sure of that will fix it (I got kicked outta skool at 15 so missed the whole math thing)

[Vicfreg 800]

Here is what I have

 

[Vicfreg 800]

Here is what the complete power steering assembly looked like from a parts car.

 

[Vicfreg 800]

Here is a link to a site that has pictures of the pitman arms.

http://www.stangerssite.com/pitmanarms.html

 

[smh00n 91]

Thanks. I am now starting to suspect that I have the pitman arm not centered and that is causing the issue. I just looked at the car on the ground and the drag link is level, but the inner tie rod joints are not equal across the car.

I wonder if the wheel alignment recently done has been done incorrectly and they have lengthened the lh tie rod to compensate.

[Vicfreg 800]

Upon further examination of my pictures, I stand corrected.  The part number in my picture is C9ZA-3590-A.  That is a power steering Pitman Arm.  

Smhoon - apologize for that.  

Vic

[Vicfreg 800]

The centering of the Pitman Arm is important. I remember moving the steering box back and forth to do this. I believe the Borgeson instructions address this.

Vic

 

[smh00n 91]

S'alright - I am a bit of an expert on drag links pitman arms and Mustangs now.

[smh00n 91]

Just now, Vicfreg said:

The centering of the Pitman Arm is important. I remember moving the steering box back and forth to do this. I believe the Borgeson instructions address this.

Vic

 

I'll have to read the instructions. I was led to believe that the pitman arms could only go on one way, which may be the case but I think I may have not had the box actually centered when I hooked it all back up, and the wheel alignment shop may have made it worse with adjustments.

 

[DocWok 30]

I'm no expert but I think you should have no linkage connected to your pitman arm. Then wind your steering box from lock to lock, accurately count how many turns it takes then halve that for centre. Then lock your wheel there so it can't move (maybe wrap some masking tape around the steering boss and the steering column) Your tie rods should be the same length either side, this is important. Then adjust your tie rods equally either side to get the Toe-In you want.

[smh00n 91]

That's what I was doing but I wonder if I am 1/2 a turn out. I think it was like 3.75 turns lock to lock and I may have got it wrong (see the kicked outta skool issue above) or it moved as I didn't lock the steering wheel. Just eyeballing it quickly today it seems the drivers tie rod is not equal with the passenger one so if it is as easy as that I will be happy.

 

[Vicfreg 800]

DocWok is right.  This is what I did. An easy way to check is to get the tires straight ahead and check the center to lock on each side to see if they are close.

 

 

[smh00n 91]

Closing this one off.

First, I had been supplied 69 inner tie rod ends, not 70. Didn't think to check them properly when I fitted it all up.

Then the shop I had do the wheel alignment must have done a hack job, as the second shop that came recommended made it steer better.

I would not say it is fully happy, but it is very much improved to what I had.

At least now I can join the people saying that the Borgeson conversion is good.

[fast_back 10]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:57 AM, smh00n said:

Closing this one off.

First, I had been supplied 69 inner tie rod ends, not 70. Didn't think to check them properly when I fitted it all up.

Then the shop I had do the wheel alignment must have done a hack job, as the second shop that came recommended made it steer better.

I would not say it is fully happy, but it is very much improved to what I had.

At least now I can join the people saying that the Borgeson conversion is good.

Have the same problem on my 70.

Did you resolve the center link sitting at an angle?

[smh00n 91]

I have not. 

I am sure I have installed the steering arms/drag link not centred as it does feel 'funny'. After a few miles the bump steer has settled down, or I have got used to it. Perhaps the whole suspension has settled down but I've not had time to look.

Either way I need to get back under there and have a look. Plus the P/S pump has now developed a whine when hot which is pi$$ing me off.

Not completely happy with this setup and have kept all the old stuff if I get too sick of it.