Subframe connector installation question

[ksquared 13]

Is it ok to install subframe connectors (going with Global West 911 I think) with the engine/trans out of the car? In my mind I can imagine arguments either way. This is a 69 Mach I with a rather hot 428 and a 4 speed so I think the connectors will be necessary.

[Midlife 814]

I've always read best to install subframe connectors with full weight on wheels and with car up on a hoist for ease of access.

[jmlay 80]

In general I agree with the full weight of the vehicle on the suspension is a good idea. However, if the car is solid and the panel gaps are to your satisfaction without the engine and trans I would not be afraid of installing without engine and trans. 

[ksquared 13]

That's kinda what I was thinking but how do you get full weight on the wheels up on a hoist? I guess hoist at the wheels somehow?

[ksquared 13]

The car is pretty solid. It may be a 69 but it only has about 64k on it.

[det0326 179]

I installed mine with out engine and trans didn't change anything or cause a problem. I had installed torque box and had rails in good shape before installing sub connectors tho.

[RPM 1,190]

I also installed mine without the engine and Jenner. I fingered the rest of the body was welded together without them, so...

I don't think it matters much. 

[latoracing 256]

I made the mistake of welding SFC on a fox body Mustang with the engine/trans in the car, supported on jack-stands, placed at the front and rear torque boxes. Probably wouldn't have been too bad if I had supported it closer to the suspension areas. This placement allowed the nose to droop, once welded together and back on the ground there was a 1/2" gap between the B pillar and the door at the top. Never thought it would move that much... I've learned a little bit since then lol.

 

[rwcstang 201]

as the others have stated, I installed mine with no eng/trans no issues.

[RPM 1,190]

3 hours ago, latoracing said:

I made the mistake of welding SFC on a fox body Mustang with the engine/trans in the car, supported on jack-stands, placed at the front and rear torque boxes. Probably wouldn't have been too bad if I had supported it closer to the suspension areas. This placement allowed the nose to droop, once welded together and back on the ground there was a 1/2" gap between the B pillar and the door at the top. Never thought it would move that much... I've learned a little bit since then lol.

 

Wow! How'd ya fix it?

 

[jmlay 80]

18 hours ago, ksquared said:

That's kinda what I was thinking but how do you get full weight on the wheels up on a hoist? I guess hoist at the wheels somehow?

4 post lift, on ramps, cribs or a few cinder blocks in the front yard if you want to be redneck.

[Midlife 814]

Almost all custom muffler shops have lifts with ramps to support the car on its suspension.  I'm sure they would be happy to install your subframes for a nominal fee.

[latoracing 256]

13 hours ago, RPM said:

Wow! How'd ya fix it?

 

Tried to adjust the doors where it wasn't as oblivious, wasn't great, but was my first time. Second time on a running/driving car (also a fox body) put it on ramps which kept the weight on the wheels. No gap issues. Wouldn't think that adding two fairly short pieces of tubing could mess up a car that bad, goes to show how "rigid" unibody's really are.

(Also not a 69/70 Mustang) I prefer to not have any drivetrain what so ever when accomplishing major structure reinforcements. Get it straight and I'm betting that it will stay straight when the drivetrain is installed. 

 

 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Heck, I wouldn't do it but Tinman did an installation video on a 67 with it sitting sideways on a rotis:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=APwXEdeGGcvTODd3jbQaie-WEJs0X_eoeA:1681944641256&q=tin+man+mustang+sub+frame+connectors&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwijv_6GhLf-AhXTSzABHYQXDJsQ0pQJegQIChAB&biw=1280&bih=570&dpr=1.5#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:b5c02a0d,vid:exeONRNM8zY

[Rich Ackermann 174]

Did my tinman connectors while the car was on the body cart. I would not do it the way I did on a convertible since there is a lot of body flex, but on a hardtop I had no concerns. Outside of the floor pans and front torque boxes my car was solid and all went well.

[Brian Conway 264]

Great picture of the floor pans and rails.  Questions;  The year and body style? Back seat area what is the large brace on the left for?  The circular backing plates are?  The frame rail holes for the forward leaf spring bolts.  Rubber and push in plugs?  Thanks, Brian

[Rich Ackermann 174]

On 4/26/2023 at 9:55 AM, Brian Conway said:

Great picture of the floor pans and rails.  Questions;  The year and body style? Back seat area what is the large brace on the left for?  The circular backing plates are?  The frame rail holes for the forward leaf spring bolts.  Rubber and push in plugs?  Thanks, Brian

1970 Mach1 M-code.

The bracket is where the rear brake hardline connects to the flex hose to the rear axle. See picture below.

The circular plates are  threaded reinforcement plates for the rear seat belts (bucket side)

I am not sure what ou are asking here... The frame rail holes for the forward leaf spring bolts.  Rubber and push in plugs?  

[Brian Conway 264]

Thank you for the reply and info.  Wasn't sure that was a fastback or what year?  The rear distribution block bracket is different than on my 69.  The leaf spring forward eye bolt frame rail grommet/plug seems to be an elusive item? Brian

[Rich Ackermann 174]

Hi Brian,

Did you try NPD. If all you need is the two plugs, then this kit may be overkill.

PLUG AND GROMMET KIT, (44), repro, contents:377901 seat access hole and top of cowl under fender (10), 376966 front fender apron, trans crossmember (10), 377977 frame rail at sway bar (2), 378923 rear shock access hole (2), 378770 inner frame rails at transmission (2), 377949 trunk floor pan plug above frame rail, side of cowl at door hinge, LH apron behind shock tower (5), 377678 heater hose firewall for A/C cars (2), 377936 inner frame rails at radiator and center of firewall (5), 377356 rear spring front bolt access hole (2), 383181 top of cowl under fender (2), 011202 quarter panel drain (2)

NPD Part Number : 011136-5K
Manufacturer Reference #'s: 376970,

[Brian Conway 264]

That's the one.  I looked all over for that one with no luck. Thank you