Am I an idiot?

[Wild_pony 1]

Guys and gals.  I am very new to mustangs.  I've recently acquired a 69 coupe.  My background is in international harvester.   Born and raised around them.   The best trucks/ SUVs (it has to be, ford copied IH for the bronco) ever, but the mustang is the iconic American muscle car,  and I've always wanted one.  So, I bought one, well the shell of one anyway.  As I have been looking at at vendors,  I have realized that I must be missing something...

I must apologize beforehand for my rant.  I decided to look for a console.  500- 700 bucks for a console with walnut trim.  How about a dash overlay in walnut to mimic the mach 1?  200-300 bucks.  Seriously?  Is there no one who makes vinyl dash overlays for the dash and console for like 50 bucks?  Is there no one who sells used parts at a deeply discounted,  but fair price?  Is there no one who has mountains of toploaders, and 302s just waiting to be picked from? Hundreds of sunvisors, and  headliners to sort through?  Grills and seats stacked to the ceiling? Are all the vendors that greedy, and are all the customers willing to pay?  Or is it like the scout world, where you have  newbies who pay the premium price for the nice website that cj pony has?  In the IH world, we have a crooked website.  They wait to take advantage of the unassuming customers.  And, we have a guy named Phil.   Phil worked in the production line for scouts in the 60s and 70s.  Phil has a huge IH junkyard in Colorado.  If it was made, Phil has it, and more than one of it.  And, Phil loves IH, and IH people. So, his prices ar fair, and we are happy to support a fellow lover of the orphan SUV. Phil will send out your part, as long as you say you'll put the check in the mail. Really.

Is there a guy like that in the vintage mustang world? Or am I stuck paying these prices?  Millions of these Mustangs were made.  Surely there is someone out there who loves mustangs, and loves mustang people. There is a guy out there who bleeds ford blue, and is willing to invite you to his home, because you bleed ford blue as well? There is a crazy guy hoarding parts, because he loves to?. I was to meet that guy.  Is there anyone like Phil?  Or am I total idiot?

I'm suffering some sticker shock here.  And I'm perplexed,  because there were some many Mustangs made.  The supply should be there to support cheap ass people like me.   Lol!!

 

Input,  good, bad. Otherwise is appreciated. I need your help.   Thanks.

[Midlife 814]

The basic issue is that of demand: it is 100 to 1000x that of IH.  There are folks interested in concours level restorations, that drive the price of NOS stuff (what's left, that is..) through the roof.  Demand has produced reproduction parts, which range in quality to awful to good; but the cost of tooling is very high, pushing the cost of new parts upwards.  Most of the good Mustang junk yards have been picked clean, and what's left is pretty much not worth looking at, if it even exists.  Yes, there are a couple Mustang specific yards left, but the folks know of the demand for parts and the price they can get for them. 

On the other hand, there are many craftsmen who rebuild and restore things such as fuel pumps, master cylinders, brakes, power steering, and (gasp!) even wiring at fair prices.  You won't find them in the IH world, as there's too little demand for it.

It's all about supply and demand, and demand in the Mustang world dominates the market.

[RPM 1,190]

Just some thoughts, and no answers...Midlife is correct in pointing out the result of supply and demand.  Heck, we all just might be idiots fixing up these cars. This is a crazy time to be getting into Mustangs. It's always best to start with the best and most complete car. If you think consoles are expensive, try buying an original air conditioner. Back in the 90s I turned down a free 1969 Mach 1 parts car that had major body damage. But it did have factory air conditioning. Oy...

[Wild_pony 1]

27 minutes ago, Midlife said:

The basic issue is that of demand: it is 100 to 1000x that of IH.  There are folks interested in concours level restorations, that drive the price of NOS stuff (what's left, that is..) through the roof.  Demand has produced reproduction parts, which range in quality to awful to good; but the cost of tooling is very high, pushing the cost of new parts upwards.  Most of the good Mustang junk yards have been picked clean, and what's left is pretty much not worth looking at, if it even exists.  Yes, there are a couple Mustang specific yards left, but the folks know of the demand for parts and the price they can get for them. 

On the other hand, there are many craftsmen who rebuild and restore things such as fuel pumps, master cylinders, brakes, power steering, and (gasp!) even wiring at fair prices.  You won't find them in the IH world, as there's too little demand for it.

It's all about supply and demand, and demand in the Mustang world dominates the market.

So basically,  what you are saying is that the mustang is the future of the scout. Just now,  they (the scout) are commanding huge prices. 40k+ is pretty regular.  I used gett phone calls from complete strangers  asking me to haul that ole scout away. No so anymore.  Now most everyone wants a premium for the pile of rust sitting in the field.  But those of us in the know,  those who have been in the hobby for 30 years, know where to still find the bargains...like Phil,  or many more like him.  At one point in history,  maybe the mustang was like that...probably not.

You bring up some great points.  And some food for thought.   An amateur like me thought..well there were a bazillion of mustangs made, so there are a bazillion parts.  Thus parts are cheap.  I guess that is not so.  I've spent a life time  "making things work" on a scout, cuz no one cared enough to produce it. Now, I am seeing the other side of the coin, and it punched me in the face.  

The hard truth is, this hobby isnt cheap.  Weither you own an orphan,  or are the most popular kid in school, it all has a price...

 

I am definitely  handy.  And I can build pretty much anything.   I think the challenges with my scouts/trucks will serve me well...

 

So there really isnt anyone who makes vinyl stickers to replicate the walnut grain of mach one?  No one who has a pile of parts anymore?

 

That is totally sad...

I guess I better get ready to bite the bullet.

 

 

[Wild_pony 1]

34 minutes ago, RPM said:

Just some thoughts, and no answers...Midlife is correct in pointing out the result of supply and demand.  Heck, we all just might be idiots fixing up these cars. This is a crazy time to be getting into Mustangs. It's always best to start with the best and most complete car. If you think consoles are expensive, try buying an original air conditioner. Back in the 90s I turned down a free 1969 Mach 1 parts car that had major body damage. But it did have factory air conditioning. Oy...

I have been there for sure.  I once had an early production v8 scout.   At the time, it was just another rust bucket.   And I would rather have the 500 bucks.  So I sold it.  That scout today would be worth a small fortune.   I hate that I sold it.  Btw, my 69 stang doesnt have much, but it has A/C...well most of it anyway. 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

This is an area in which you will definitely need to do some shopping, for instance, tachman does wood grain restorations: http://www.tachman.com/fordwood.htm

and this vendor has some wood grain parts: http://mustangpartsdirect.com/index.php/index.php?route=product/search&keyword=woodgrain

 

[BobW70Mach1 28]

I say this with all due respect.  LOL!  When someone says that, you can always expect it to be followed by something disrespectful!  Just kidding!

I’m a 70-71 Torino guy who just recently got into the Mustang game when I bought a 70 Mach 1 Basket case.  I have two Torinos and have bought and sold a bunch of them over the last decade.

I have to laugh when I see someone complaining about availability and prices of Mustang parts.  Mustang people, myself included, have it made.  Virtually every part of the Mustang is reproduced.  We can get any part we want.  Not only that, the prices are pretty reasonable.  There are many Mustang vendors competing for your business which keeps prices reasonable.  Moreover, the sheer volume of Mustang cars produced and their popularity ensures they will keep on making Mustang parts.

I compare that to my Torino experience.  Parts are scarce.  Most parts are not reproduced.  The cars were not nearly as popular, and less were produced, resulting in much less NOS or junkyard parts.  This results in the parts prices much higher than a Mustang.  Just last year, for the very first time, they started to reproduce quarter panels.  We could not have been more excited.

This is just one example.  MACs auto parts has a set of louvers complete with hardware for a 1970 Mustang Fastback for less than $500.  They don’t reproduce Torino Louvers and if you ever found one you would pay up to $4000.00 for an unrestored set not including the hardware.  Then there is the cost of restoring them.  A complete unrestored Torino console will run anywhere from $1000-$1500.  Again, that is unrestored.

When I first took inventory of my Mustang, I was really depressed because of my past Torino experience.  I knew I had to restore or find a lot of parts and was expecting it to be expensive and time consuming.  Once I started researching and shopping, I was like a kid in a candy store.  I was able to get every part I needed online at prices I thought was pretty reasonable compare to my Torino experience.

There are plenty of other cool cars out there that have even less available repro parts and had even smaller production numbers.  Those guys have it really tough.

In the end, if you have a Mustang, consider yourself lucky.  It could be worse.  Much worse.

[Wild_pony 1]

4 hours ago, Mach1 Driver said:

This is an area in which you will definitely need to do some shopping, for instance, tachman does wood grain restorations: http://www.tachman.com/fordwood.htm

and this vendor has some wood grain parts: http://mustangpartsdirect.com/index.php/index.php?route=product/search&keyword=woodgrain

 

No that is what I'm talking about!!! I want to know people like that!  Thank you for those links.

[Wild_pony 1]

44 minutes ago, BobW70Mach1 said:

I say this with all due respect.  LOL!  When someone says that, you can always expect it to be followed by something disrespectful!  Just kidding!

I’m a 70-71 Torino guy who just recently got into the Mustang game when I bought a 70 Mach 1 Basket case.  I have two Torinos and have bought and sold a bunch of them over the last decade.

I have to laugh when I see someone complaining about availability and prices of Mustang parts.  Mustang people, myself included, have it made.  Virtually every part of the Mustang is reproduced.  We can get any part we want.  Not only that, the prices are pretty reasonable.  There are many Mustang vendors competing for your business which keeps prices reasonable.  Moreover, the sheer volume of Mustang cars produced and their popularity ensures they will keep on making Mustang parts.

I compare that to my Torino experience.  Parts are scarce.  Most parts are not reproduced.  The cars were not nearly as popular, and less were produced, resulting in much less NOS or junkyard parts.  This results in the parts prices much higher than a Mustang.  Just last year, for the very first time, they started to reproduce quarter panels.  We could not have been more excited.

This is just one example.  MACs auto parts has a set of louvers complete with hardware for a 1970 Mustang Fastback for less than $500.  They don’t reproduce Torino Louvers and if you ever found one you would pay up to $4000.00 for an unrestored set not including the hardware.  Then there is the cost of restoring them.  A complete unrestored Torino console will run anywhere from $1000-$1500.  Again, that is unrestored.

When I first took inventory of my Mustang, I was really depressed because of my past Torino experience.  I knew I had to restore or find a lot of parts and was expecting it to be expensive and time consuming.  Once I started researching and shopping, I was like a kid in a candy store.  I was able to get every part I needed online at prices I thought was pretty reasonable compare to my Torino experience.

There are plenty of other cool cars out there that have even less available repro parts and had even smaller production numbers.  Those guys have it really tough.

In the end, if you have a Mustang, consider yourself lucky.  It could be worse.  Much worse.

My skin is pretty thick.  No offence taken.  I totally get what you are saying.  I was relieved to buy a mustang.  I knew I could get any part I wanted.  Much like the Torino crowd,  the IH crowd is used to fabrication.  Very little aftermarket support causes one to think outside the box.  I was tired of that.  I want to be able to buy something off the shelf and install it.  That sounds weird.   I'm used to fabrication,  and the grinding, sanding, painting, just to make this certain piece look factory...ish.  I am suprised at the cost of mustang parts.  But I knew there were guys out there who do cool stuff for the mustang crowd.  Much like the link above from the guy who restores gauge clusters. I know I'm rambling,  but folks like that will get my money. 

If you know of any vendors who like that guy,  please let me know. 

When I travel, I like to eat where the locals eat. The same applies here.

[aslanefe 333]

24 minutes ago, Wild_pony said:

When I travel, I like to eat where the locals eat. The same applies here.

Sorry we don't have a diner in this forum (yet). But if you want your shorts checked, Randy ( @Midlife) will be happy to help.

[Wild_pony 1]

57 minutes ago, aslanefe said:

Sorry we don't have a diner in this forum (yet). But if you want your shorts checked, Randy ( @Midlife) will be happy to help.

He cant touch my shorts, but I will probably be sending him a few harnesses to rebuild. That's a cool service for sure. 

[Mike65 475]

Wild pony welcome to the forum. I am also rebuilding a 69 Coupe that I acquired as a rolling shell 20 years ago. If you need a headliner I have an extra new one I would sell you less then new. Used Mustang parts check out Blue Ridge Mustang parts in Virginia, I have purchased parts from him in the past & very good to deal with. There also is a guy in Florida who sells used Mustang parts who I have purchased parts from & is a nice guy, his e mail is paparet2@juno.com. Hope that helps.

[Vicfreg 771]

Welcome to the forum.  The real issue is that time is not on our side. 

I purchased my first Mustang in 1976.  I was a '64-1/2 Coupe, D code with a 4 speed.   I paid $550.    My second Mustang was purchased in 1978, it was a 1968 "S" code coupe, I paid $1500.   At that time, those cars were 10 years old, and every junkyard was full of Mustang and Cougar parts.  I used to fall over toploaders and 9" rear ends when scouring for parts in the local scrap yard.   

So, roll forward to 2022.  That '64-1/2 "D" code 4 speed coupe is not priceless, but rare as hens teeth.  Today, that $550 car is worth 40-50 times what I paid for it back then.   So are the parts.  A good way to get extra parts that you might need is to buy whole parts cars.  Take what you need, sell it to someone who needs the rest.   

For mechanical stuff, find a large show like at Hershey or Carlisle Ford Weekend, where there are literally acres of parts to be had, sold by other enthusiasts that know what you are looking for, and usually, charge a fair price.

Or, ask someone on this forum. I personally have hoarded a full storage building of Mustang parts, to the point where I don't even know what I have in there.  So, just ask, and you will be surprised at what response  you will get. The folks on this forum are excellent people, honest, and will find you what you need if they have it.

Good Luck!  

 

[Wild_pony 1]

21 hours ago, Mike65 said:

Wild pony welcome to the forum. I am also rebuilding a 69 Coupe that I acquired as a rolling shell 20 years ago. If you need a headliner I have an extra new one I would sell you less then new. Used Mustang parts check out Blue Ridge Mustang parts in Virginia, I have purchased parts from him in the past & very good to deal with. There also is a guy in Florida who sells used Mustang parts who I have purchased parts from & is a nice guy, his e mail is paparet2@juno.com. Hope that helps.

That is a huge help.  Thank you!!!  I do need a headliner for a coupe.  I think I have the bows...I think maybe 4 or 5 of them?.  I am definitely interested. 

 

I'll also hit up those other contacts for stuff.  I need just about everything.   Lol.

[Wild_pony 1]

17 hours ago, Vicfreg said:

Welcome to the forum.  The real issue is that time is not on our side. 

I purchased my first Mustang in 1976.  I was a '64-1/2 Coupe, D code with a 4 speed.   I paid $550.    My second Mustang was purchased in 1978, it was a 1968 "S" code coupe, I paid $1500.   At that time, those cars were 10 years old, and every junkyard was full of Mustang and Cougar parts.  I used to fall over toploaders and 9" rear ends when scouring for parts in the local scrap yard.   

So, roll forward to 2022.  That '64-1/2 "D" code 4 speed coupe is not priceless, but rare as hens teeth.  Today, that $550 car is worth 40-50 times what I paid for it back then.   So are the parts.  A good way to get extra parts that you might need is to buy whole parts cars.  Take what you need, sell it to someone who needs the rest.   

For mechanical stuff, find a large show like at Hershey or Carlisle Ford Weekend, where there are literally acres of parts to be had, sold by other enthusiasts that know what you are looking for, and usually, charge a fair price.

Or, ask someone on this forum. I personally have hoarded a full storage building of Mustang parts, to the point where I don't even know what I have in there.  So, just ask, and you will be surprised at what response  you will get. The folks on this forum are excellent people, honest, and will find you what you need if they have it.

Good Luck!  

 

Nice post.  I am beginning to see the bigger picture here.  I'm definitely going to have to check out some shows.  And I'm going to probably ask you to shuffle through your stash, if your willing.  

 

As an aside-  I'd really like to thank everyone.  I was discouraged.   I was shocked.  But you've all made me feel better.  I have hope again.  

Now, keep posting if you know where to find parts!!

[Midlife 814]

Be thankful you're not tackling a Boss or Shelby; prices are outrageous, particularly if you want NOS!

[Wild_pony 1]

2 hours ago, Midlife said:

Be thankful you're not tackling a Boss or Shelby; prices are outrageous, particularly if you want NOS!

Oh, I can only imagine.   Even a fastback was out of my league.   But the coupe is growing on me.

[EastYorkStang 63]

Welcome ! Ask away. There are plenty of great knowledgeable people on here. I've learned a lot.

[JayEstes 172]

On 2/24/2022 at 1:03 PM, Wild_pony said:

He cant touch my shorts, but I will probably be sending him a few harnesses to rebuild. That's a cool service for sure. 

They come back perfect, and with a documented wire-list specifically for your car.  Its a Waaaay better deal than replacing all the wiring IMHO.