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Kris

Holley sniper or Fitech efi

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I’m considering putting an efi system on my mustang and want to know which one everyone feels is better. I’m looking at the Holley sniper 500-511k and the Fitech 31003 systems. My engine is a 302 bored 60 over with mild street cam. 

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Never used the sniper but I did use the FiTech, I was mostly pleased with it but the programing to fine tune it in can get confusing.  

As terry said above their tech help wasn't to good to start with but I think it may have improved some. If I was going to put efi on another car I would use Edelbrock's multiport. Used one on a non Mustang project and am well pleased with it. More expensive but I think it is well worth it.

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I just installed the Holley Sniper EFI with the Holley Hyperspark Ignition box, distributor, and coil on my 1970 M-code Cleveland which is stroked to a 408ci. Also installed a Holley Retrofit return-less fuel pump for 1970 mustang 22 gallon tank. It can use your existing  3/8" fuel line. You will need to modify each end of the line to connect the EFI, filter, and pump, but its fairly straight forward. There is a significant amount of wiring and a few fuses and relays needed to bring it all together. When adding the EFI, ignition and fuel pump, make sure you have enough available voltage. I doubt a stock 50- 60 amp alternator and the 10 gauge supply wire in the stock ignition harness is enough to support it all, particularly if you have previously added other power hungry components (i.e. a modern stereo and amp). Correct wire size is important too. Holley is very clear about this in there installation manual.

Make sure you have no exhaust leaks before the O2 sensor. Even a pinhole leak can draw in ambience outside air and cause an erroneous lean fuel condition and the Holley EFI ECU will be constantly adjusting the fuel mixture incorrectly. Ask me how I know!

As far as I am concerned Holley has fantastic customer support. They have technicians available 7 days a week and until 10pm Eastern time. A few weeks after installing my Sniper, the ECU failed, Holley sent me a shipping label  and 10 days after I sent it to them, I got it back. They had replaced the ECU and the handheld display completely free of charge.

All that said, my setup is running well. Still making adjustments. I have no regrets picking the Holley Sniper and Hyperspark Ignition components. The Hyperspark ignition is designed specifically for the Sniper EFI so the integration details is already done for you.

Ps. The intake manifold I have on my Cleveland is an Edelbrock Air Gap dual plane and has a cutout in the divider between the two planes, which I have read is important to have when using a dual plane intake mani with the Holley EFI. The Holley Sniper EFI on dual plane intake mani's without the cutout in the divider can cause inconsistent fuel mixture issues between the left and right sides. Single plane manifolds do not have or need a divider and therefore do not have this issue.

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I’ve been leaning towards Holley since I’ve been able to find more reviews on them and also detailed instillation videos. Thanks for the feedback. 

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I’ve been running my FiTech for years with no issues . In tank pump setup. 
Both systems have similar issues , just jump on FB and see. 
The Edelbrock pro flo 4 looks good as well. 

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16 hours ago, Shep69 said:

I’ve been running my FiTech for years with no issues . In tank pump setup. 
Both systems have similar issues , just jump on FB and see. 
The Edelbrock pro flo 4 looks good as well. 

Edelbrock pro flo 4 is what I was speaking of in post above. I used it on a 454 well pleased with it.

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On 8/29/2021 at 12:49 PM, Rich Ackermann said:

I just installed the Holley Sniper EFI with the Holley Hyperspark Ignition box, distributor, and coil on my 1970 M-code Cleveland which is stroked to a 408ci.

Also installed a Holley Retrofit return-less fuel pump for 1970 mustang 22 gallon tank. It can use your existing  3/8" fuel line. You will need to modify each end of the line to connect the EFI, filter, and pump, but its fairly straight forward.

Is that the pump where you cut the hole in the top ? Or ?

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3 hours ago, EastYorkStang said:

Is that the pump where you cut the hole in the top ? Or ?

No. The fuel pump fits into the stock hole for the fuel sender. This retro pump unit also has the sender built into it. It is specifically designed for 64 - 70 mustang gas tanks. The pump comes with 3 different sender floats, depending on your tank. Mine is a 22 gallon take. This pump also has a hydro-mat on the fuel pickup to reduce the chance of drawing air in when the fuel level is low. Holley part # 12-305.

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I was looking at that option for the fuel pump too. The only drawback to me is if it goes out it’s another $400 for a new one vs a cheap inline electric pump. It is a much cleaner look. It also gets rid of the need to drill and put a bulkhead into the tank and the need for a return line. 

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Kris.. my son has a shop building custom vehicles and he shys away from the in line electric pump. Most are noisy and run hotter due to the fact that they are not submerged in fuel like the intank one. He sticks with sniper...great tech support...and in comparision with the FI Tech comes with everything you need. Fi Tech if i recall was sort of a'la'carte as far as the necessary brackets, studs etc. whereas it all came with the Holley. However that may have changed....He usually orders his exact fit tanks from Tanks Inc.

....John

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14 minutes ago, Kris said:

How accurate is the factory fuel gauge with the Holley in tank unit? 

Kris,

The factory spec is 73 Ohms @ empty and 10 Ohms @ Full. The more gas in the tank the less resistance at the sender and your ohms will go down (the gauge needle will move towards full). The Holley Sender is advertised as being the same Ohm limits. I bench tested the Holley sender unit and can verify that the Ohms limits are very close to factory. When I installed it with the fuel pump into the tank and checked the Ohms at the dash cluster wire, it read 89 Ohms @ empty. I checked the Ohms again near the tank and the sender read 74.3 Ohms and 9.8 Ohms. I don't know why the difference when close to the sender or far away at the dash, but that its.

If your gauge needle  has always been reliable, then I would just bench test the Holley sender to confirm it is sending the correct Ohms when you move the float from E, to 1/2 and then Full. My car has not been running for 30+ years, so I did not have that luxury. I could not trust the gauge or the sender without verifying the Ohms sent and where at the gauge moves the needle to.

All that said, my gauge was not at factory spec anymore, probably due to its age. Rather than replacing it or having it rebuilt, I bought a device called MeterMatch which you can program to to read the Ohms from the sender and send to the gauge something different to put the needle where you want it to be. For example.... Your tank is full,  you can program MeterMatch to send 73 Ohms to the Gauge when it receives 89 Ohms from the sender. The tank is at 1/4 full and the sender sends 47 Ohms (roughly a 1/2 tank of gas) the Gauge reads a half tank when it should read 1/4 tank. You program MeterMatch to send the gauge 16 Ohms (1/4 tank) when it receives 47 Ohms. You can program 2 to 4 data points to control the needle and optionly a high and/or low alert value, and MeterMatch will send 12v on/off to whatever alarm you connect it to (a Bulb will flash or a chime will sound on/off for example). Sounds complicated, but its is easy to program. You just need to start with an empty tank and count the gallons as you fill it so you know where the gauge needle should be at the various points (E/ 1/4, 1/2 and F). MeterMatch will calculate the ohms in between the data points you programmed, so the needle will continually move evenly from F to E.

Sorry, I got carried away with my answer and gave more than what you asked for....

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With the tanks we installed Kris we installed a quality ( if there's such a thing .lol) sending unit and had no issues whatsoever with the factory gauge. On other ones aftermarket gauges were installed and worked great and were accurate as well. ...John

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I have a Sniper on my car and very happy with it. From first start it just ran well and I have never had an issue. I used the base kit.

My set up is the Sniper with a MSD 6AL, 8479 distributor and a Holley EFI tank. I use the sniper to manage timing and electric fans. I have a Edelbrock torker manifold (the original, not a Torker II) on a tired old 302 ( I have a 347 just waiting to out together whenever I get time)

Couple of points I'd change;

The Holley tank is a pain as all the fittings come through the top. Basically you need a false floor to protect the lines which I am still thinking about how to do. I'd probably look at the fuel sender module with pump if I did this again. The pump is a little bit loud but that can be a wank factor as the people watching realise its not a standard car.

The fuel sender caused me all sorts of grief. While the Ohms might be correct, you actually need to change the float level to have the gauge read right. I think I pulled it out 6 times trying to make it read right. I'm about 1/8" off I reckon to having it 'perfect'

The wiring I followed to the letter, good earths, strong positives and no cross over of wires. Only hassle I had was the MSD and Holley guides had different instructions for wiring the distributor into the 6AL box (Holley instructions are correct, btw).

Hot or cold, I have decent starts. I have a MSD hi torque starter and like 0 gauge wires all through the start circuit. I control the idle, I control when the fans come on and off, I can set the AFR, all sitting in the driver seat. You can change the fuel map but that's well over my pay grade or care factor.

I know there are lots of horror stories out there for Sniper and Fitech, but when you read all the issues it comes down to power and earth (for Holley, I don't look at FiTech but they seem to be the same). Like I said, from the first start this thing just booted up, settled into a nice idle and has never let me down. Disclaimer; I've only done around 500 miles on it over the past year so it's not getting worn out any time soon.

I went with Holley as they have been out there for over 100 years and were the original supplier to Ford, so they must do something right.

 

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5 hours ago, smh00n said:

I have a Sniper on my car and very happy with it. From first start it just ran well and I have never had an issue. I used the base kit.

My set up is the Sniper with a MSD 6AL, 8479 distributor and a Holley EFI tank. I use the sniper to manage timing and electric fans. I have a Edelbrock torker manifold (the original, not a Torker II) on a tired old 302 ( I have a 347 just waiting to out together whenever I get time)

Couple of points I'd change;

The Holley tank is a pain as all the fittings come through the top. Basically you need a false floor to protect the lines which I am still thinking about how to do. I'd probably look at the fuel sender module with pump if I did this again. The pump is a little bit loud but that can be a wank factor as the people watching realise its not a standard car.

The fuel sender caused me all sorts of grief. While the Ohms might be correct, you actually need to change the float level to have the gauge read right. I think I pulled it out 6 times trying to make it read right. I'm about 1/8" off I reckon to having it 'perfect'

The wiring I followed to the letter, good earths, strong positives and no cross over of wires. Only hassle I had was the MSD and Holley guides had different instructions for wiring the distributor into the 6AL box (Holley instructions are correct, btw).

Hot or cold, I have decent starts. I have a MSD hi torque starter and like 0 gauge wires all through the start circuit. I control the idle, I control when the fans come on and off, I can set the AFR, all sitting in the driver seat. You can change the fuel map but that's well over my pay grade or care factor.

I know there are lots of horror stories out there for Sniper and Fitech, but when you read all the issues it comes down to power and earth (for Holley, I don't look at FiTech but they seem to be the same). Like I said, from the first start this thing just booted up, settled into a nice idle and has never let me down. Disclaimer; I've only done around 500 miles on it over the past year so it's not getting worn out any time soon.

I went with Holley as they have been out there for over 100 years and were the original supplier to Ford, so they must do something right.

 

I agree with smh00n comments particularly around the fuel sender and using the proper wire size, clean positive connection preferably directly from the battery  and having good grounds. If may I would add that a common issue folks have that is overlooked is making sure there are absolutely no pinhole leaks in the exhaust pipe before the O2 sensor, around the O2 sensor Bunge clamp, or around the exhaust manifold collector/flange. Also any leaks a foot behind the O2 sensor. The slightest leak allows outside ambient air into the exhaust and wreaks havoc on the AFR values sent to the EFI. Especially at idle where outside air is most likely to be drawn in to the exhaust pipe thru the hole. Whereas when accelerating and at higher RPMs in general, exhaust is forced out those holes so the O2 sensor does not give a the EFI an inaccurate reading. I learned the hard way how a small pin hole leak in a critical spot in the pipe can screw up the works..

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I purchased the Holley sniper 550-511 and the in tank pump 12-305 to go with it. Rich did you just use tube compression to barb fittings with efi clamps to reuse the hard fuel line? Like the one in this picture? 

DA8FCBE8-F8FF-451C-A38A-5E77F9C19A9A.jpeg

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Kris, sorry for the delay, I was away for the long weekend. 

I used a holley filter near the gas tank (see picture below). I think it came with some rubber hose and  clamps which I used to connect the tank line to the filter and then to the two part stock 3/8" hard line, which I had replaced with new, then again maybe I bought the hose.. I also used the same fuel Injection rated rubber hose to connect the two parts of the stock hard line together just behind the drivers side torque box. I ran the hardline to a hole in the rear inner fender apron below  the brake master cylinder and distribution block..from this point I ran 6AN PTFE E85 Braided Fuel Injection Nylon Stainless Steel hose with 6AN fittings of various types as needed to the Holley EFI supply port and I installed a plug in the return port.

Below are the parts I bought, most which you can buy on Amazon.

EFI return plug - AC PERFORMANCE Black Aluminum -6 AN Male Hex Head Socket ORB Port Plug With 6 AN AN6 O Ring

Rubber Fuel Injection Fuel Hose 30R9 3/8" I.D.

I used these to connect the rubber hose to another 6AN fitting, such the Aluminum 3/8" hardline connector below....EVIL ENERGY 6AN Straight Push Lock Hose End,-6 Female to 3/8 Push on Barb Fitting

3/8 Vapor Guard Hose Clamp Screw Type

Various 6AN fittings as needed

Aluminum Hard Line Tubing Fitting 3/8 Tube to 6AN Male Fare Fuel Hose. Used to connect the stock hard lines to braided hose line.

3/8 Fuel Line Tubing Mounting Clamps Stainless with Rubber Insulator

EVIL ENERGY 6AN PTFE E85 Hose Braided Fuel Injection Line Fitting Nylon Stainless Steel Black (Hose ID: 0.315 inch)

I also bought Quick Fuel Throttle Ball Assortment to connect the stock accelerator cable to the Holley EFI.

Rubber hose connecting the two parts of the 3/8" factory hardline just behind the torque box.

20210906_211551.jpg

The Holley filter. I used the rubber hose and clamps here to make it easy the replace the filter as needed. I used a stock coil bracket to mount it. Cheaper than the fancy aluminum FI  brackets sold for it.

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The 3/8" rubber hose fitting to 6AN hardline fitting.

20210906_211255.jpg

I would do this one below differently the next time. Next time I will bring the braided line out thru a grommet and the fender apron and connect it to the hardline in the fender well or just eliminate the second hardline and rubber hose connection entirely all the way back behind the torque box. This is the 3/8" hardline to 6AN fitting which passes thru the rear inner fender apron below the master cylinder.

20210906_211419.jpg

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1 hour ago, EastYorkStang said:

How did you wire in the intank pump ?

I ran 12 gauge (blue) wire, 12v from the battery thru the left hand rocker channel and out the quarter panel drop down to the four pin plug supplied with the Holley pump. The 12v supply from the battery is controlled by a relay mounted in the engine compartment. The Holly sniper will trigger (via the pink wire) the relay with the key in the ignition run and start positions. The Holley EFI system, Hyperspark ignition, and fuel pump requires power to be on when the key is in the run position to prime the pump and it must maintain continuous power when the key is turned to start, so it is important to connect your ignition start wire to a relay and connect the Holley Sniper pink wire to the relay pin 87, 12v to pin 30, and your ignition start wire spliced to pin 86, and ground to pin 85. In addition, I ran a 12 gauge wire ground from the engine compartment to the four pin Holley pump supplied plug, but you can ground a 12 gauged wire to the chassis near the pump/tank. The purple 16 gauge wire from the pump connects to the factory sender (yellow) wire to the Fuel Gauge in the dash. The fourth wire is a 16 gauge Black/White Stripe wire from the pump harness is for the sending unit ground. This can be grounded near the tank as well. You can see the pump wire harness and plug in the pictures I uploaded in the previous post.

I hope that helps...

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I am running FiTech.  I kept the Fuel Command Center, and ran a return line back to the tank.  Seems to work ok.  Still have some tuning to do.   If you want a full ignition/EFI package the MSD Atomic with the MSD ignition would be a good choice.   The EFI systems need a square wave tach signal for a RPM reference. If you have a multiple spark discharge distributor, the interface may not work.  I had to add a Pertronix digital ignition box to my Pertronix III distributor to make my EFI work.  

 

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I bought the Holley sniper setup. Im still waiting on the in tank Holley fuel pump I ordered. Did you install an inertia switch for the fuel pump so it will shut off in the event of an accident? I was also considering adding a hidden fuel pump cut off switch as a theft prevention. I already have one hidden button that kills the feed from the msd box. 

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The MSD white wire shuts it all off so I personally don't see the need for a pump cut off. Just another switch to remember to turn on.

I have an inertia switch here somewhere, I should really fit it as I think the pump still runs if the engine stalls. I'll have to check that out myself now I've said it.

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An inertia switch would be a good idea, in my case all you have to do is kill the ignition, once the fuel injection loses the RPM signal from the ignition it won’t pump any more fuel

 

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