Lower Clutch Rod.... Does this look right to you???

[Past Time 3]

Hey guys, back again with a question for the experts.....

My clutch pedal has been sticking the last 5 - 10% of the travel up. I've sprayed everything down with WD40 and checked to see that all the return and balance springs were there and attached, they are. I then ran across this on the lower clutch rod at the swivel. Someone double nutted the rod going to the the clutch lever. If I move it the rod by hand the rod will bind in the swivel and sometimes move forward after sticking and sometimes not which is what I seem to be experiencing in the car now. There's also no nut at the far end of the swivel which lets the rod move all around. I'm also a bit concerned about the angle the rod is on. Should I be concerned? Then again maybe I'm over thinking this and it's just because of the slop in the swivel joint now.

I did do a bit of research and found the Scott Drake replacement part Noticed that they have a nut on either side of the swivel which makes a whole lot more sense to me. Which is the correct way to install this and if this is wrong what should the adjustment be so that when I take it apart and put it back together I don't screw it up.

Also should the swivel thread on to the rod? The one that's in there now is free floating and the rod has quite a bit of slop in the hole in the swivel. I've attached pictures of my set up and the Scott Drake rod for my car. It kind of makes me think someone really pouched this in. What do the experts say?

I have to say I'm learning a lot from this forum. Thank you for your help..... Bill

[Boss429Dreamer 18]

Crawled up under mine and took a look. Same setup as yours. I think the jam nut keeps the adjustment from moving. I found a link to the Ford shop manual. That's how I adjusted my clutch, but I'm afraid it's time to replace mine. Try this link: how to adjust clutch linkage | Vintage Mustang Forums (vintage-mustang.com)

[Past Time 3]

Hmmmm. If that's good then does anyone have any idea why the clutch pedal would be sticking coming up the last 2"?

[nymustang1969 22]

There should be a spring in the engine compartment going for the z-bar to the firewall.  Also under the dash is the over center spring which also assists in returning the pedal up.

[dream car 12]

Looking at your pictures seems like the return spring is bottom-out already.  If you could adjust and place little more tension on the spring, it will pull the pedal all the way up.  

[Brian Conway 264]

Diagram from the 69 Shop Manual Vol. one pg. 05-03-02.  Should hold the answers to you questions ?   Are the parts we are talking about here stock/original equipment ? About the pedal sticking;  If you have all three springs and they are located correctly then I suggest you loosen the nuts on the adjustment rod until the pedal pops up on its own.   Won't take much.  Brian

[Past Time 3]

Thank you for all the responses. I got a chance to pick up some parts at NPD (nice having a warehouse somewhat local to be able to go to) and installed most of what I picked up. I started with the new lower rod and bushing. This fixed part of the problem. If you look at the picture below you can see how the feral the adjustment rod passes through has become oblong. There's about a quarter inch of slop in it and the threads were binding in the hole. The bushing was also worn through and letting the feral sit on an angle which made the binding worse. The end of the rod that connects to the clutch fork lever is also very worn down in comparison to the replacement. After replacing these parts the pedal no longer sticks at the lower travel of the pedal throw. That said I don't believe I have the rod adjusted correctly as the pedal sits high in the car. So I do believe I've made progress here. Just need to figure out what I should be looking for on the adjustment for the lower rod. Last thing I want to do is adjust it incorrectly and screw up the throw out bearing. When I put the new rod in I basically measured the length of the existing rod from tip to the top of the locked nuts and did the same for the the new one but I don't think it's adjusted correctly as it sits.

 

So looking at the 69 Diagram. What is is that they're showing for the adjustment? They show free play but I don't see a value. I'm assuming the 15 - 20 lb ft is the torque to lock the nuts together.

 

Next was the upper return spring. I found the longer spring in the picture laying on top of the equalizer rod. As part of the parts run I picked up the lower one in the picture which I was able to identify and cross reference at several Mustang sites as the correct spring. Unfortunately I was not able to get this spring in. The master cylinder and clutch rod make getting it hooked to the firewall something akin to a carnival game. After about 45 minutes I finally was able to get it attached to the firewall but then could get it attached to the equalizer bar. Unless someone has the secret on how to do this I think the master cylinder is going to have to come out to give me room to attach the new spring.

[Brian Conway 264]

For the ' free play dem ' the Shop Manual suggests .136.  For your purposes and for now that should be slightly less than 1/8".  About the firewall spring my method is to tie a 3-4 foot length of cord or similar to the Z bar end and let it hang loose or on the ground,  Attach the  other end of the spring to the firewall.  Retrieve the loose end of the cord and get it into the engine bay in the correct location above the Z bar.  From there you should be able to pull the cord/spring and make the spring attachment to the Z bar.  Brian

[Boss429Dreamer 18]

About the pedal sitting up high, I think this is normal. Mine sits high too, and being concerned about it I looked at many cars that were for sale to see pictures of the clutch pedal. All that I saw looked that way. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Past Time 3]

Oh wow thats simple and brilliant. Thanks you so much for the tip. Attaching to the firewall is still a carnival game but I had it once so I'll get it again.  Thanks for including that picture too. It confirms that I had the wrong spring (which wasn't working) all along and I'll willing to bet this will fix the top travel problem.

[Midlife 814]

Height above the floor for the pedal is controlled by the pedal stop on the clutch/brake pedal assembly.  I don't believe it is adjustable.

[stangs-R-me 120]

My pedal was also not returning fully to the stop bumper every time in the late 00's  

So I finally went though it all back in 2011 and found that one of the two pot-metal bushings in the the clutch & brake pedal support that pedal rod pivots on was split.   I had completely rebuilt the pedal support with all new parts including a new clutch pedal shaft less than 30k miles prior and it had failed again.

So, I installed a Mustang Steve Ball Bearing Retrofit Kit to replace the poorly designed factory pot metal bushing / plastic insert set up and the problem is now gone forever.

There are other kits out there with roller bearings that ride directly on the clutch pedal shaft (Scott Drake's kit is one), but you want to avoid this style kit if you are not going to replace the shaft at the same time.   My new shaft with less than 30k miles already had a wear groove starting to form in it, which could cause the roller bearing to prematurely fail.   

For the Ball Bearings, I just needed to polish it / knock the high spot down to work with Steve's Kit as these bearings have an inner race that rides on the shaft.        

Doug  

[Past Time 3]

Stangs..... Just how bad is this to do? I looked at the kit and it says it needs to be welded in and since welding in not in my skill set well that would have to be out sourced. I do plan on doing some updates that include both dash bezels so I'll have the dash apart but not sure how nuts I need to be about this.

 

Update to where I'm at now..... I finally got the spring back on and replaced the rod with the one I had the picture of but unfortunately it came in sharp as a pencil on the end. Yeah that lasted about 50 miles before the end was worn down about 1/4" which threw the clutch rod adjustment out of whack. I just got another from NPD and the end is much more blunt and rounded off. It's also about 1/4" longer. Both have the same part number and are both made by ACP. Got a third one from Amazon this afternoon and it's the same as the first one I got. The quality control on these is terrible. It's hard to see in the picture but if you look at the top one it's much pointier than the lower one. The lower rod is also 1/4" shorter than the top one. So what happens is the top one's point will wear down about another 1/4" so now you've lost a 1/2" in total length of the rod and will be all the way out to the end to get it into adjustment. Can't believe the metal they're using on these rods is that soft. So yeas the Amazon rod it going back too.

As petty as it may seem that first rod is going back the next time I'm at NPD which seems to be getting pretty often lately. That rod was $23 and basically lasted 50 miles before it's near junk now. I'm going to try the new rod but there's a good chance I'm going to end up using the swivel on the new rod with the old rod. That one was in there probably 50 years and looks

On 6/23/2021 at 9:37 PM, jmlay said:

If I recall correctly the vaccume line runs to a valve that closes when the engine warms up, cutting off vaccume to the motor. No or less vaccume allows the motor to open the door allowing ambiant air to enter the air cleaner. Door is normally open and closes with vaccume.

better than that POS first rod I got.

[Past Time 3]

So everything seemed fine for a while but now I'm back to square one. As I drove the car the pedal started sinking lower and lower towards the floor. I'm at the point now where the linkage is adjusted all the way out to get that 1/8" of play but depressing the clutch pedal won't disengage the clutch. The car doesn't want to go into gear and grinds going into reverse. When I adjusted it this morning everything worked perfectly but deteriorated to this in the course of about 60 miles.

 

Any ideas? I'm thinking pressure plate?

[stangs-R-me 120]

On 7/1/2021 at 4:13 PM, Past Time said:

Stangs..... Just how bad is this to do? I looked at the kit and it says it needs to be welded in and since welding in not in my skill set well that would have to be out sourced. I do plan on doing some updates that include both dash bezels so I'll have the dash apart but not sure how nuts I need to be about this.

It's been 10 years since I had mine out, so details are a bit fuzzy.

You do need the dash pad & gauge cluster out, and steering column is tied into it but just needs to be unbolted from it (steering column can stay in car still attached to firewall).

I'd also pull the drivers seat out so you can lay in the car ... which I'd probably do 1st so you can get a good look up in there to check the bushings & support to see if there is anything broken or cracked.

Doug   

[dream car 12]

13 hours ago, Past Time said:

So everything seemed fine for a while but now I'm back to square one. As I drove the car the pedal started sinking lower and lower towards the floor. I'm at the point now where the linkage is adjusted all the way out to get that 1/8" of play but depressing the clutch pedal won't disengage the clutch. The car doesn't want to go into gear and grinds going into reverse. When I adjusted it this morning everything worked perfectly but deteriorated to this in the course of about 60 miles.

 

Any ideas? I'm thinking pressure plate?

Sound like your new sharp clutch rod poked a hole on the clutch fork.  As you drove it made the hole larger and larger and cause the clutch paddle go lower and lower, that just my thought.

[Past Time 3]

Yeah I'm going to get under there again and take a look. No chance this is a bad pressure plate?

[stangs-R-me 120]

What you are describing would more likely be something in the bellhousing (pressure plate or the fork) rather than under the dash.

Doug

 

[Past Time 3]

59 minutes ago, stangs-R-me said:

What you are describing would more likely be something in the bellhousing (pressure plate or the fork) rather than under the dash.

Doug

I'm thinking the same thing. I had a 79 CJ5 that did the same type of thing.The clutch when new started to release with about 35% downward travel. When the pressure plate started to go I had to have it on the floor to get it to release. IDK thought I could be completely wrong but I do know there's no adjustment left in the clutch rod and unless I have the pedal on the floor it doesn't want to come out or go into gear.

 

[det0326 179]

Just a thought but have u checked the transmission mount to see if it might be broken?

[Past Time 3]

I have not. Are you talking about on the cross brace?

[det0326 179]

Yes the one on the transmission tail shaft. Just thinking out loud but if it is broken it could be letting the tail of transmission slide a little messing with the adjustment.

[Past Time 3]

Just went back out and took another look. The car is super clean underneath, no rust at all and all the nuts/bots look new. Looked at the trans mount on the tail shaft and the bolts there look new as well as the mount. No signs of ripping, tearing or damage. Did the same as with the motor mounts they look perfect as well. The adjustment on the clutch rod is the same as when the car drove perfectly 60 miles ago.. Unless the equalizer rod somehow bent or there's something going on in the bell housing or a bent/damaged fork or throw out bearing that's sticking on the output shaft I'm at a total lose.

[Brian Conway 264]

OK suggestion one and a starting point;  remove the lower spring, not the firewall spring or the pedal support spring, and wiggle the clutch fork back and forth.  You may need to loosen the adjusting/lock nuts to do this.  This will tell you if the fork is riding on the throw out bearing or not.  If you know; what clutch do you have ?  Stock after market ?  Did you install the clutch or trans ? Are the Z-bar supports (equalizer brackets), frame rail and engine side in place and secure/tight ?  Others will get on board with other trouble shooting ideas ?  Brian

[Past Time 3]

Yep was just out there and went through most of this. I removed the spring on the fork, when I push the for back I have about 1/8" - 1/4" of play from the tip of the rod to the cup on the fork. Note that the adjustment in the rod is all the way to the end now so I doubt I could pull anymore adjustment into the rod.

 

I just went out and grabbed the Z bar from the top and tried to move it. If I pulled hard I can feel play in the assembly but I may just be taking up the slack at the rod. It doesn't sound smooth at all when I do this and I can mover the bar side to side about 1/2".

 

I got the car about 2 months ago with no documentation on the clutch. The clutch seems to lock up fine and will easily stall the car. When the rod was adjusted properly it released fine and drove very well.