70 Convertible door weatherstrip install "new problem"

[Rcodenewf 44]

Working on this 70 convert and having issues with installing the door weatherstrip. The weatherstrip is a Carpenter product and looks nice enough. Issue is this: The weatherstrip has basically two sides that are at a 90 degree angle to each other where it contacts the door.. The problem is where it sits on the door , the door isn't a 90 degree angle..it's a much wider angle as one side 'leans back' more than the other. If you glue both sides of the weatherstrip then one side sticks and then pulls off while the other gets pressed and vise versa....had the vertical portion of the door  done and had to remove it...remove the weatherstrip adhesive and now ready to put it back on again but was wondering if in fact i should just glue one side of the angle and not the other???

Anyone run into this? Why couldn't Ford make push in pins in their weatherstrip similar to GM and no issues. lol.

Thanks...John

[aslanefe 333]

On 2/4/2021 at 7:04 PM, Rcodenewf said:

Working on this 70 convert and having issues with installing the door weatherstrip. The weatherstrip is a Carpenter product and looks nice enough. Issue is this: The weatherstrip has basically two sides that are at a 90 degree angle to each other where it contacts the door.. The problem is where it sits on the door , the door isn't a 90 degree angle..it's a much wider angle as one side 'leans back' more than the other. If you glue both sides of the weatherstrip then one side sticks and then pulls off while the other gets pressed and vise versa....had the vertical portion of the door  done and had to remove it...remove the weatherstrip adhesive and now ready to put it back on again but was wondering if in fact i should just glue one side of the angle and not the other???

Anyone run into this? Why couldn't Ford make push in pins in their weatherstrip similar to GM and no issues. lol.

Thanks...John

Can you post pictures of the areas that are giving you hard time? The aft and bottom parts of the door has 90 degree angle for weather strip, but the front part of the door is flat.

[Rcodenewf 44]

Will do...thanks. 

John 

 

So...the one pic shows where the weatherstrip sits..in that angled portion. The 2nd pic shows when i hold the flat side of the weatherstrip to the one side, the other side opens up. The 3rd pic shows when i hold the weatherstrip flat against the area by the lock the other side opens up. It's like the original weatherstrip might not have had a perfect 90 degree angle to the two flats that glue to the door. This is the original 70 door and clearly you can see that the angle where the weather strip goes is greater than 90 degrees..it's wider. Wondering if anyone has run into this. thanks..John

Edited February 6, 2021 by Rcodenewf
Pictures

[aslanefe 333]

@Rcodenewf, it has been a long time since I installed a reproduction w/s (which I assume is what you are using). I looked at a few original doors I have with original w/s on them and on some one end of the w/s is little lifted, some are laying good; lifted ones did not have glue under lifted areas. If your w/s is a good quality (ie soft) then when you glue them, they should confirm. Follow the directions on the glue (ie put it on both sides, wait X minutes for it to get non-tacky etc). Last time I installed door w/s a couple years ago, I re-used the original w/s I removed without damaging it. I used the black 3M which I think holds a little better than the yellow one; do the aft side of the door first, then half of bottom, then other half, then front and glue it in sections. Before gluing, I install it with masking tape and mark the w/s and door in a few places so the ends of w/s matches to the screw holes at both ends of the w/s. Then glue section at a time, and attach per the marks I made on door and w/s. Attach one flat side of the 90 first while butting the 90 degree to the door 90 degree then press the other flat side. If you follow the directions on the glue and if your w/s is soft, glue will confirm the w/s to door. Good luck.

[unilec 57]

Another tip, wipe the gasket over with solvent, there is residue of the mold releasing agent that need to be remove to allow the glue to hold properly.

[Rcodenewf 44]

Thanks for the response aslanefe: Are you saying you glued both sides of the 90 on the vertical pieces..seems hard to do as when i tried it one side pulled away while i tried holding it to the other side of the 90?

unilec: yep.i wiped it down with acetone to remove that release agent.

John

[aslanefe 333]

5 hours ago, Rcodenewf said:

Thanks for the response aslanefe: Are you saying you glued both sides of the 90 on the vertical pieces..seems hard to do as when i tried it one side pulled away while i tried holding it to the other side of the 90?

unilec: yep.i wiped it down with acetone to remove that release agent.

John

John I put the glue on both sides of the "90 on w/s" and both sides of "90 on door" where the w/s will be positioned. I follow the directions on 3M "black" w/s glue and let it tack. Glue sticks very good if you follow the directions, you will leave pieces of w/s on the door when you try to remove if you misplace the w/s while installing. That glue is kind of a one shot deal, when done right almost impossible to remove the w/s without tearing pieces; that's why I mark the door, w/s etc before applying the glue. You may want to mask the area on door where w/s will be installed so while you are putting glue on door you do not get it on visible areas of the door as it is kind of a pain to remove the residue from the door.

If you can wait a day or two, I think I have a set of door w/s on my spare parts bin; I'll to post you pictures of the glue and where to apply the glue on the door and w/s etc.

[Rcodenewf 44]

Aslanfe.. yep..a few days won't hurt me to wait. Thanks

John

[aslanefe 333]

14 hours ago, Rcodenewf said:

Aslanfe.. yep..a few days won't hurt me to wait. Thanks

John

John,

Marking the door and W/S are pictures 1 and 2. Mark with reference points every 10-15 inches after you install the screws at the ends of the W/S. Also mark the door perimeter where W/S is going to be, I used red thick sharpie so it is visible for pictures (use thin sharpie for actual work). then remove the W/S screw at the front of the door.

Pictures 3 and 4; the masking tape is where you put glue on W/S and door. Dashed lines on W/S and door are 90 degree corners. With W/S screws installed at the aft end of the door, put glue 10-15 inches (between your reference lines you put on W/S and door in pictures 1 and 2).  When glue is tacked, start pressing the W/S 90 degree to door 90 degree first, then face 1 (which is the narrower side of the 2 faces), then press the face 2. Getting the 90s on W/S and door to match good is the key. Also, make sure your reference marks on W/S and door match closely while you are joining the W/S to door, if not you will end up with access or be short on W/S when you get to the other end.

I use 3M 08008 black W/S glue as in my experience it holds stronger than yellow 3M glue but it is less forgiving if you misalign and have to remove to reposition.

Don't mind the old W/S residue on the door, it was hard and going to take too much effort to clean just for pictures.

[TexasEd 188]

nice tip on using the tape to help make sure you are placing it in the right place.

[Rcodenewf 44]

Aslanefe: Finally getting back to you. I learned a few new cuss words installing these weatherstrips..lol but I got it done.

As TexasED says the tape at increments is a very good idea. What i found out is to not to try to do too much at once.

I fastened it at both ends...marked the door and weatherstrip at roughly 1foot intervals...then starting at the rear of the door i did the vertical strip in two steps and then the segments under the door. One has to be very careful not to tug on the weatherstrip as it will certainly want to stretch and misalign your screws on the front of the door.

The lower corners were the toughest but in the end it worked out well. A few spots didn't take so i pulled the weatherstrip back, pinned it back with some good 3M body tape and then got in with some fresh glue using a soldering brush ( i bought a whole pack to do this..inexpensive) ...allowed it to cure a few minutes then pressed the weatherstrip back utilizing the tape again.

After letting it sit for that evening and overnight , i finally shut the door. I warmed the weatherstrip..especially the ends..with a heat gun and this allowed the door to lock in further on the latch. I left them there. 

Thanks for all the help guys. Hopefully i can help someone out with other issues they're having with their stang.

Best regards, John

[aslanefe 333]

On to next hurdle then,; yes it is tedious work to get the W/S right, have it last and not let go real soon. I usually wait for a day that I am real calm to do the door W/S, feels like it is a lot easier to put a back glass on a coupe all by myself than doing door W/S.

[Rcodenewf 44]

Yep..i hear ya. I told my wife that id rather rebuild an engine than do weatherstrip..lol.

Thanks again...John 

[Rcodenewf 44]

Well, i have to resurrect this thread. Not for the door weatherstrip but the a pillar weatherstrip. These weatherstrips have been on backorder due to covid and they finally arrived. The weatherstrip goes from the top of the A pillar where it meets the convertible top ws. Down the door opening and fastens at the bottom. The weatherstrip is has a metal 'frame' covered by rubber with two locating tabs that go into slots in the A pillar. These do line up on this car. Most of the screws holes in the new weatherstrip do line up with the holes in the A pillar that secured the original weatherstrip.

Now here's the problem?  With the window rolled down or even part way down the door closes fine although a bit springy when you open it because of the new door ws. However, once the glass is rolled all the way up, upon closing the door the top of the glass comes into contact with the A pillar weatherstrip well before the door closes. I loosened the the two bolts at the bottom and this allowed me to pull the vertical slides inward which tilts the top of the glass outwards. Ford refers to this as the " tumblehome adjustment". The bottom of the vertical slides mount onto a bracket that has a square nut that slides inside a slotted cage. The sliders are adjusted inwards at their maximum but the glass still touches the weatherstrip first and putting pressure on the door seems like it is going to pop the hinges off...lots of tension. Has anyone run into this before? Everything is lubed up...correct 70 regulators...no binding ..windows go up and down smoothly....been fighting with it for couple of days. Oh...passenger door is original, drivers side is dynacorn...same problem with both.

Thanks...John

[Ridge Runner 1,112]

I have had to slot the holes more at the bottom of the door to get the glass to move outward 

[Rcodenewf 44]

Was wondering about that Ridge. Did u ever consider cutting the tube at the bottom and moving it inwards then rewelding?

[aslanefe 333]

Can you post some pictures? Top front, top rear of glass rolled up (both door and quarter glass), door closed, door almost closed etc?

[Rcodenewf 44]

Will do aslanefe.

John

[Rcodenewf 44]

Well before i post any pics i'll update. Had my bodyman friend stop by today. He was baffled why the window was tilted in so far but we did manage to make a little headway. Facing the passenger door i noticed that the lower left was sticking out a bit and therefore the upper right inward ( that's my problem area)...so we tweaked the door out a tad on the upper right which, while latched on the striker, moved the bottom left inward a tad. So gains were made there. But the problem still exists. I had the doors fitted perfectly before the car went to paint but the shop painted the car in pieces which of course is what i wanted.

Ridge ...Just to see if your 'slotting' suggestion would work i removed the bolt at the bottom of the door which held the forward vertical run. With it completely removed i can only get it maybe a 1/8" of an inch outward until the square frame on the bottom of the tube hits the outside shell...so slotting it won't work on this door at least.

Seeing the sliding nut is at its' maximum travel my plan is to cut off the protruding portion of the 'cage' part where the nut slides as the nut is at its' maximum in the opposite end.. Then fold down the tab..in essence shortening the slot where travel isn't required.

Aslanefe...i'll post pics of the window before and after the mod.

I'll keep this thread updated and thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

Best regards...John

 

[aslanefe 333]

On 11/12/2021 at 3:32 PM, Rcodenewf said:

Will do aslanefe.

John

Are your door glasses bolt-on or glued? Early 70's had glued door glass (my 70 vert has glued door glass). I  can offer you a suggestion (which I had success with) that may work which does not require modifying the vertical runs if you tell me if your glass is bolt-on or glued and post some pictures.

[Rcodenewf 44]

Hello aslanefe. Yes, my door glass is bolt in. Just outside blowing snow right now :( but will post some pics after if you still need them. Back outside..later!

Thanks...John

[aslanefe 333]

1 hour ago, Rcodenewf said:

Hello aslanefe. Yes, my door glass is bolt in. Just outside blowing snow right now :( but will post some pics after if you still need them. Back outside..later!

Thanks...John

I asked for pictures because I wanted to make sure I understood your problem correctly; if I did, what I did should work for bolt-in glass too.

[Rcodenewf 44]

Hello aslanefe: Sorry for the delay..Was getting a 63 Fairlane ready for sale as well as trying to sell/dispose of some of my friends stuff that recently passed away.

Back at the convert today for a bit and i took a few pics. I removed the vertical run at the front. The lower bracket was pulled inward as far as it could go with the tab that  holds the little nut in, touching the outer door skin. So i cut off roughly 3/8" of that tab as it protrudes past the acutal base of the run. Still not enough. I took a few pics to show the front of the glass touching and pressing in on the glass while the rear of the door and glass is still open.  What mods did you do to yours? The drivers side is not as bad but certainly not right.

Thanks for any help/suggestions you can provide.

Regards..John

[aslanefe 333]

I would lower the glass 1/4" to  1/2" and close the door. Then make sure the glass is aligned so the top edge of the glass is paralell to the top/roof, aft edge is parallel to the quarter glass/trim and front edge of glass is parallel to the A pillar. Also, the glass stops at the back and front of the door affect how the glass stays parallel to top and A pillar when the window is all the way up. 

You know the C channel brackets that rides on the vertical runs which the glass is attached to; if you put a plastic shim between that and the glass under the "top bolt" that attaches the C channel to glass, you will move the top of the glass inward. If you put the shim between the C channel and glass under the "bottom bolt", you will move the top of the glass out board. As you have bolt in glass, be careful tightening those bolts and use a plastic shim instead of metal. Try the shim method on the front to pull the top of the glass out at the front, small shim make big a difference versus pulling/pushing the bottom of the vertical run because of the difference in leverage between the bolts and top of the glass.

[Rcodenewf 44]

Hey aslanefe. Thanks for the response. Funny, while i was waiting for you to get back to me i was wondering what else could be done...cut / reweld the tubes or shim those C brackets..lol. But i wasn't thinking of just doing it to one bolt only on each c channel bracket. I'll certainly give that a try and report back. Cheers!

John