Mach1 Driver

I got the quote from Chris Straub for a complete "Build Your Own" engine kit. I asked for a daily driver- it will be able to run on pump gas and even 87 octane (in a pinch), develop 400HP with a very mild idle note- to quote him " The cam would have the idle note of a late model Vette but quicker to RPM." Its a very beefy 351W punched out to 374 cid. The kit will have a Dart block with 9.5 deck and bored to 4.125. Since it has a lot of nickel in the iron he says its good to 250k miles. The Crank will be a forged Eagle with Cleveland mains, 3.5 stroke and internal balance The rods and bearings are listed as SBC, but he assures me they are made to fit a SBF also. They have 2.100 journals and are 6.200 long The pistons are custom from CP Carillo. No word yet on the dome volume or pin height yet, but it will be zero deck. The oil pan is from Stef's Fabrication, 6 qt rear sump 9" deep, includes pickup Melling Oil pump- standard The head gaskets are from Cometic and .040 thick. There are several other gasket sets from Fel-Pro, and a freeze plug kit. The cam bearings are from Dura-Bond and he will install them. The cam will be a roller hydraulic. It takes about 1-1/2 hours to do the math for the cam so he will do that after I place the order The lifters will be Morel 5879 Rollmaster timing chain and gears Silver Seal timing cover AFR 205cc heads with 78cc combustion chambers- that's how the 87 octane is possible if I get stuck in the middle of nowhere Custom length pushrods- Straub's Lab will do the measurement Scorpion Racing products roller rockers 1.6 ratio Edelbrock 7181 intake Carburetor- this surprised me; he's old school and instead of a FiTech EFI he suggested a AED Performance 750 double pumper ARP head bolts for aluminum heads, and a stainless fastener kit for the remainder of the engine Romac balancer, neutral balance Various carb parts: fuel log, carb gasket and throttle bracket assembly Straub will bore and hone with plates, line hone, deck block, pinfit pistons, hone lifter bores for size, balance complete rotating assembly, measure and check crank journals for straightness, gap rings, main housing bore check, set pin and rod journal clearance, wet mag block and crank for cracks. All I have to do is clean the block and assemble it. $13612 He suggests using a Crane distributor because they still have a good gear, or I can use a MSD but he has to change the gears. This is in the planning stage and ordering is a ways off. It gives me nearly double the HP and something my wife won't mind riding in on a long road trip with the club. Yeah its pricey but I get the fun of building it and it has sophisticated power. The roof won't vibrate from the loping idle of a stroker motor with a big-ass cam.

First you said "water temp and fan", then "oil gauge and fan" It doesn't really matter- oil, water, and fan don't mix. The sender will be some kind of variable resistor, the fan needs a snap action switch that opens and closes at specific temperatures.

Thanks Ridge, that's a nice trip back down memory lane. About that time my brother-in-law was running a 390 in a chassis he built, stuck a Metropolitan body on, and then put a velvet paint job on it- the Fuzzy Red Metro! He even talked my sister into driving it.

OH BOO!! As much as I love my Vette I would never stick a Chevy engine in my first new car.

Thanks Barnett and Chris. In a couple of days when a get a big "honey dew" item completed I will call Chris and talk to him about a "build your own" kit.

WooHoo thank you so much. That's a fantastic package; I will run this by Chris and see what he thinks

Hey Dave can we have some pictures? Is it to a point that you can drive it yet?

1. How high do I want to rev it: The LS1 in my stock C5 red lines at 6k but even with an automatic it will spin to 6500 with no problem. I wouldn't think that 6k is unreasonable for a built Windsor. 2. Do I want quiet, moderately loud or extremely loud: I would like moderately smooth and moderately quiet. Of course defining that for both of us is difficult. It appears that it is difficult to get with 350-400 horse power out of Windsor and meet that criteria. Lets drop any ET requirement and just focus on giving it as much power as we can and still make it "moderately" smooth and quite. 3. A dual inertia ring crank damper looks interesting and should help. 4. Balance it to zero: do you mean internally balanced to zero vrs. 28 oz. external? 5. Rod/stroke ratio: I think Chris was more concerned about piston speed for a given rpm so wanted to de-stroke it to 3.25, and then he just instinctively knew what rod length he needed to use so it would work in a 351 block- around 6.2. A 351w/408 stroker is 6.25/4= 1.56:1 rod/stroke ratio A 302/347 stroker in a 9.5 deck block is 6.2/3.25= 1.91:1 rod/stroke ratio A stock LS1 350 is 6.098/3.62= 1.68:1 rod/stroke ratio A stock 351w is 5.956/3.5= 1.70:1 rod/stroke ratio So am I correct in guessing that a higher ratio would make it run smoother?? 6. I think Chris would be happier with more aggressive heads (like 220s) but those are strictly for competition. 195s should do. 7. Here's the specs on a Ford Lightening ENGINE TYPE: supercharged and intercooled SOHC 16-valve V-8, iron block and aluminum heads, Ford EEC-V engine-control system with port fuel injection Displacement: 328 cu in, 5374cc Power (SAE net): 380 bhp @ 4750 rpm Torque (SAE net): 450 lb-ft @ 3250 rpm Jeez they went to a lot of trouble just to get 380 hp, but the torque is good. Nawww whats the fun in that? lets stick to the Windsor.

Barnett, I absolutely, positively do not want a blower. I absolutely will sacrifice power for a smooth and quiet ride- that's all its ever been, but it can be improved. Bear with me here; take a stock 69 351w with a 2 barrel, its 250hp. Use a COMPLETELY stock short block (yes, including the cam) and add: FiTech TBFI Edelbrock 7181 Performer RPM intake AFR 1381-716 heads Dougs D669Y headers MSD ignition Yes I know the cam is killing it, but all I've done is make it breathe better. The FiTech may let it idle slightly better because the A/F ratio is going to be dead on and it will definitely start quicker. The MSD should also make it idle better. Since the cam hasn't been touched it should idle at least as well as it always has and maybe a little better. A 4R70W will also help with the noise at highway speeds, and the 3.00:1 axle can be much higher (numerically) to help the launch. 1. Are any of the above assumptions incorrect? 2. What would you guess the horse power is now? 3. Put a mild cam in it and what happens to the horse power? Whats the idle like? Again, thanks for the help ;)

I'll investigate Chris's suggestions and see how difficult it is to pull together and would appreciate any help I can get. I want the car to still have the flavor of a 69 muscle car. Its pretty tight under the hood and off hand I don't know where a supercharger would fit. It would be a plumbing nightmare, and in my opinion just look out of place, so for many reasons I would not put a supercharger on the car.

No doubt about it- he is IMPRESSIVE. I should have taped the conversation- it was way over my head. He wanted a short stroke with a big bore and big runners to make it breathe. He said the Dart block could be punched out to 4.2, but I knew they spec'ed less and told him so. He said it would take it, but backed it down first to 4.155 and finally to 4.125. All he said about 302s is that he had made many over 400 hp and some around 600, so he probably was thinking 302 based. He clearly stated that a stroked 351w/408 was not the way to go for good power and a smooth idle.

Yes I spoke with Chris, and he suggested going a different way. He said that stroking it would increase piston speed and just won't work for a smooth idle. Instead he suggested using a Dart block and boring it to 4.125, go with a 3.25 stroke (stock is 3.50) and end up with about 347 cid. Then use a long rod- maybe 6.2 to 6.25 (whatever is needed for compression etc). The heads will need 195 to 205cc intake runners, then he can develop a mild cam that will give lots of power and a smooth idle. So whats got a 3.25 stroke- is that a stroked 302 crank (normally 3.0)? I'm guessing its the same basic Dart block with different deck heights? I can't find any 302 rods that long- use 351 rods? This is beginning to sound like a Frankenstein- is all this workable? Help!!

Just keep in mind that if you are going to change to a multiple spark discharge system then the coil is operated multiple times per power stroke so you can't tie the tach to the coil anymore. You will need a clean tach signal coming from a magnetic or hall effect pickup in a new distributor. Some ignition boxes have a tach output. Pertronix has an MSD system but I don't see a tach output in their literature. Just something to consider.

What is the backspace on the wheels in the picture? The tire size calculator says that the 235 tire is only .2" taller but .8" wider than your current tire. This sounds like the area that RidgeRoute grinds off in post #14...but he only has a 3-3/4 backspace. Hopefully someone with some first hand experience can elaborate.

For Straub to design a custom cam they need a few details. I need some help with #6 and 7 below. Thanks 1. Car weight: 3257 lbs (with aluminum heads) 2. Engine size: 351w/408 stroker 3. Heads: AFR 1381-716, 195cc intake runners, 58cc combustion chambers 4. Compression: 10.04:1 5. 4R70W 6. Converter- ?? 1953 rpm, 3.50:1 axle @65 mph, with 26.1 tire diameter and 0.667:1 trans ratio 2082 rpm, 3.73:1 2171 rpm, 3.89:1 2182 rpm, 3.91:1 2294 rpm, 4.11:1 7. Gear- ?? 8. Tires: 235x60x15 9. Intended use: Cruising, daily driver, high 12 to low 13 second 1/4 mile, SMOOTH idle

...and I love the tail fins too!!

Thanks, that would take out any guess work

Thanks for the effort

I don't know about you guys, but when barnett expounds on a subject I take note. It's great to have resident experts!! There are always "gems" in there to be mined.

Yeah the 40+ hp is marketing hype. They couldn't tell me if their cylinder prep was plateau honing. My problem is how to get a 1971 or later block ( I want the taller deck) that only need the bore opened .030. Most places will only guarantee .060.

Glad to hear that everything fit well, so I'll be using those too. Just so Dave's dyslexia doesn't get the better of him again I'll just give the part number, it's Doug's D669Y ;) FYI "D669Y-1" is for 3" wide SBF bolt pattern on AFR 225cc heads and others and D669Y is for the rest

Has anyone used a "DSS Racing" block or have any experience with them? I'm looking at their LVL20-351W which has this description: These D.S.S. Level 20 CNC race prepped engine blocks feature D.S.S.'s special ultra seal cylinder prep. This very detailed and time consuming process provides ring seal and power second to none. They have over 35 blueprinting operations, dyno proven to produce 40+ horsepower over standard production blocks. D.S.S. Level 20 CNC race prepped engine blocks have advanced features like their elliptical cylinder chamfer, threaded freeze plugs and are CNC stroker clearanced, providing you the ultimate bottom end for your engine. Thanks for any input

Let us know how they fit when ya get um on there Dave, Thanks

OK thanks, if you feel like it.

thanks Ridge, so far we have: 215x65x15 is 26.0" dia and 8.5" wide, 15x7, 4.25 backspace (no rub), Brian Conway 215x65x15 " " " " " " 15x7, 4.50 backspace (no rub) Arning drop and lowered 1.25", Prayers1 225x60x15 is 25.6" dia and 8.9" wide, 15x7, 4.25 backspace, (no rub) lowered springs, Shep69 225x65x15 is 26.5" dia and 8.9" wide, 15x7, 4.00 backspace (no rub), Brian Conway 235x60x15 is 26.1" dia and 9.3" wide, 15x7, 4.25 backspace (no rub) edit: barnett468 has had this on 50+ cars 225x55x16 is 25.7" dia and 8.9" wide, 16x8, 4.50 backspace, (no rub) Arning drop & lowered 1", nyMustang1969 245x60x15 is 26.9" dia and 9.6" wide, 15x7, 3.75 backspace, (no rub) Arning drop, Ridge Runner and barnett hasn't answered if any of the 50+ cars had an Arning drop