Mach1 Driver
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Posts posted by Mach1 Driver
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here's some other ideas courtesy the internet:
PCV
Ignition system
A/C compressor cycling on/off due to low refrigerant
Plugged/restricted exhaust
Clogged fuel filter
Fuel system pressure issue
Air in cooling system ??
Vacuum leak
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White to dash lights positive
Red to ignition switch C and fused
Black to ground
Green to coil negative- that's the points side
Switches or wire loops for number of cylinders
I think you may have covered all those bases
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A. Ok, you shorted the resistor wire so you probably have a Pertronix ignition module- is it a 1, 2, or 3? Is it installed?
B. Tripple check that you have the circuit exactly as shown in my attachment. RobbMc gave you a diode that must be put in the circuit in the direction shown. If you reverse the diode the solenoid on the starter will stay on. I think that is what may have happened. Check to make sure the diode is working- use an ohmmeter to get continuity one direction, but not in the other. Put the diode next to the stock solenoid where it is relatively cool- depending on the grade component it will reach its temperature max at 105C or 125C, that's 221F or 257F. Its unlikely it is rated higher.
Can you share more regarding your thoughts that the test results indicate the car is presently miswired?
C. I have several questions regarding your test results:
2. Tested remote solenoid on car
- Ground to large left post on solenoid (12.19 volts) yes, battery voltage
- Ground to "S" post (10.43 volts) Not unless the key is "on", and it should be around 12.19 judging from your battery voltage
- Ground to "I" post (12.19 volts) Not unless the key is "on"
4. Ran a wire from + battery terminal to + on coil (loud click at solenoid, no start) this is really really wrong- describe the exact conditions. Is the stock solenoid clicking or the RobbMc?
7. Ran a wire from battery + terminal to starter terminal on remote solenoid (loud click, no start)
- Transmission in neutral what is the remote solenoid- the RobbMc starter solenoid or the stock solenoid in the car? Which clicked?
D. New attachment for your conditions
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albarnett,
1. It appears you installed an aftermarket mini-starter that has special circuit requirements- a RobbMc, is that correct?
2. When you say it "doesn't start" you mean the starter doesn't spin- correct?
3. If that is the case lets tackle this one system at a time, beginning with the starter.
4. Have you ever run the starter out of the car- just laying on the ground, to see if it spins? Its very easy to do but you must be careful.
5. You don't want sparks at the battery, because it can develop explosive gasses. Lay the starter on the ground and connect a 10ga wire from B to S. Connect a battery jumper cable from chassis to the body of the starter. Now be careful, because as soon as you connect the other battery jumper cable to battery positive and then touch it to the B terminal the motor should spin and torque away from you. DON'T SHORT ANYTHING OUT. Only apply the power for a moment to see if the motor operates.
6. If it spins out of the car we should be able to get it to spin in the car. However, you've made so many changes that I can't follow everything you've done, and I can't tell what state the car's electrical system is currently in. I can say that some of your results indicate the car is miss-wired and if I were you I would return it to stock condition so we can go through it a circuit at a time and fix any additional problems.
7. Attached is a Word file that shows schematically the stock circuit, the RobbMc circuit and the stock wire diagram.
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cooled down and now works, maybe the coil, or what ever?, just a thought.
Since you said the solenoid didn't click, it's not the coil. Look at the schematic in the Word attachment. Power flows left to right in the schematic. The problem is somewhere in this line:
1. battery to ignition switch B
2. ignition switch S to the neutral safety switch
3. neutral safety switch to starter solenoid S.
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Unfortunately it could be any number of things from a bad battery to loose cables, poor connections somewhere or a bad ignition switch.
Since the solenoid didn't click and the radio didn't work it sounds like no power was getting to the ignition switch. At the least I would clean-up the battery posts then check the grounds: the big negative cable where it bolts to the block and the smaller one from the passenger side head to the firewall near the heater motor. Take them off, clean everything up, make sure you have bare metal with no paint under them and tighten all connections.
Then check the battery voltage. A fully charged battery will give you 12.6v and when the alternator is charging it should read 13.5-15v across the battery posts.
Intermittent problems are a pain. If it ain't broke ya can't fix it! If you are good with a voltmeter try tracking it down step by step through the circuit:
1. Across the battery posts: approx. 12v You must start with close to 12v or none of the other tests may be valid.
2. Key in "start", solenoid "S" to chassis 12v. If not then B to S in ignition switch is bad or loose connection.
3. If above gives 12v at solenoid "s" but solenoid doesn't click then bad solenoid
4. Key in "on/run" position, coil "bat" terminal to chassis approx. 5.7v (stock ignition system with resistor wire, otherwise 12v)
5. If no voltage then ignition B to C circuit is open or resistor wire is open or a connection in that line is bad
6. Oh yeah I forgot to mention, if you have a tach car it must be plugged-in and operating. For some reason in these old cars, Ford decided to run the tach in series with the ignition system, not in parallel, so if the tach gets fried the engine won't run. The power comes out of the ignition switch, goes through the tach, then through the resistor wire and then supplies power to the coil "bat" terminal. Crazy.
Good luck. I can give you the wire colors if you need them it to help track it down.
Edit: I see barnett has written a reply while I was writing mine- listen to him, he knows his stuff.
Not my thumbnails
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Well where are the pictures of the finished product??
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Talked to Dan at Chuckostang who explained all the rag joints are the same from 68-70 if you have a non-tilt wheel, which I do. The columns on the 69-70 collapse and have a collar and bracket welded to the end. The bracket bolts flat to the rag joint and the other side has a spline that goes to the box. I was thinking I would maybe put an integral box on (CPP or Borgeson) to get rid of the leaks. Dan says I can ship him all my components- whatever I like (box, cylinder, valve, pump) and he will rebuild the works for $500-600 and ship it back with the hoses attached and ready to bolt on. Or you can get a rebuild kit from them for around $150. Its good to talk to an expert and someone who appreciates originality.
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Here's my 2 cents.
Nice car, but you need to take the shot from the same angle only lower (and with the door closed). Its all in the staging, and maybe turn the tires left somewhat (you know how the models turn their feet at right angles to one another) Pose that Girl! ;)
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I do have Cal tracs and I've taken any tension out of it, just don't know why it hasn't dropped another 1/2"????
No comment on your Cal Tracs. I think your stripe scheme is much more attractive than my Mach's.
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Connect a voltmeter positive terminal to the coil "bat" terminal and the negative to chassis. Turn the key to "on", not start. What voltage do you get?
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Congrats, that's pretty. I like the color
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well dang this looks interesting- get that prototype finished!!
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An electro-mechanical voltage regulator should regulate from 13.5 to 15.3v. The fact that yours goes down below range at increased throttle is a bit odd, but it still has plenty of voltage and the ignition should still operate.
It sounds like a loose or high resistance connection somewhere. Bad grounds can cause bizarre operation so I would disconnect and clean them. I've seen cables that look good and test OK with an ohmmeter but have broken strands under the insulation and won't carry a load. 69's have the negative battery cable going directly to the engine and a secondary from the passenger side head to the firewall near the heater motor (this is a pretty hefty wire- maybe an 8 to 10 gauge). I've read that 70's don't have this wire but have a secondary one going to the chassis from the negative battery cable. Perhaps someone with a 70 can verify this if need be.
I hope it doesn't come to this, but as a last resort; Midlife (one of our members) sells reconditioned harnesses but he recommends a new harness for the engine bay because it is exposed to the elements and temperature extremes and is nearing 50 years old. The vendor he recommends for new harnesses is Metal Alloy.
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Sign me up for a 69 tool Ridge!
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Just a thought, turn ign key on and see if you have power to coil. Your start up sounds just like mine when having my issues yesterday
Yep, could be- if your car has a tach that is fried or disconnected that will open the ignition circuit. The engine will run as long as the key is in "start" but not "on". You might try unplugging the tack and putting a jumper wire in the car side of the plug.
Another thought- It looked like you were using a remote starter switch- or was someone in the car? Did you have the key "on" when using the remote switch? If not it would have behaved just as shown.
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FYI, when key on, "I" at solinoid has power
Yes, if you look at the schematic, you'll get 12v in "start" and 5.7v when "on".
Glad its working.
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After taking the pad, cluster, and radio out, I finally traced it back to a bad headlight switch. It is barely a year old!
I've had repop switches fail- just stop working. Did yours short internally and then fry a wire?
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My attachment is a schematic and is intended to show how it works, not how it is wired, as in a wire diagram.
On a car with a tach:
Ignition Switch C- wire 16 pink goes to a two terminal plug that goes to the tach, power goes through the tach and back to the plug and out through wire 16A pink, to a three terminal plug, and out the other side to wire 16 pink which goes to the coil.
It sounds like the tach circuit is open (burned-up or disconnected). Disconnect the tach if not already and put a jumper wire in the plug (on the car side, not the tach side) from wire 16 pink to wire 16A pink. That should complete the circuit and get the engine running again.
I don't have a tach and the wire diagram is on a different page so I always forget the tach is in series with the ignition circuit. In most modern cars the tach is not placed in series with the coil as it is here, instead they are in parallel and can be disconnected and not affect the operation of the car. Since yours is in series, if it is disconnected or gets fried the engine won't run- its an open circuit. Let us know if that works.
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yep looks great, and nice color- what is it?
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You need to market those Ridge!
Another Ignition Problem
in 1969-70 Technical Forum
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