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Mach1 Driver

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Posts posted by Mach1 Driver

  1. Posted · Report reply

    This is the straight scoop, the real deal, the unvarnished truth, the real skinny, and gospel. I know “how” and “why” the wiper circuit works. I think you’ll find this surprising. There is real science going on here.

    I have received so many versions of how the wiper circuit functions (from 3 forums) that I still had doubts. So I took the perfectly good wiper motor out of my completely stock 69 Mach and investigated. BTW, I’m the original owner so I know its completely stock. I disassembled the motor and found that it agrees 100% with the FORD diagram (printed by Helm).

    I had misgivings about the diagram because the Park to chassis contact in the motor seemed superfluous. I disconnected the park contact, reassembled the motor and hooked it up to the car.

    Some background: the motor has a SPDT switch that is in Park for about 15 degrees of its rotation. The rest of the time this switch is in the Run position.

    It is important to note that stopping is a two stage process, and stage one occurs when the circuit is switched off via the dash switch. The motor is prepared to stop by switching it to LO for the remainder of its rotation. A slower motor is less likely to coast too far.

    I started the motor but when I turned the dash switch off the motor wouldn’t stop spinning. The Run switch would open and you could hear the motor turn off, but it would coast right through the 15 degrees until it switched to Run and started going again. It did this repeatedly, every time tested.

    I wondered why this was happening and a light bulb went off. I looked at the schematic to verify and confirmed my suspicion. Both Park switches close, connecting the ends of the motor coil together. Without this connection the motor would never stop, at least not within the allotted 15 degrees of rotation.

    So here's what happens: when the motor is turned off, the magnetic field in the motor coil collapses causing a reverse voltage, called a Back EMF. Connecting both ends of the coil together causes the motor to “reverse” for the instant that the magnetic field is collapsing, and the motor stops before coasting into the Run position.

    I reconnected the Park contact in the motor and it operated normally, stopping when it should. Isn’t that cool? It momentarily puts on the brakes. Betcha didn’t see that coming! Please see the attached operating sequence.

    WIPERS.pdf

  2. Posted · Report reply

    9 hours ago, mwye0627 said:

    I would think that a standard, filtered 7805 circuit would be sufficient....     Should be plenty of current, if not, then a simple switching circuit would be pretty simple and accurate enough for the Gauge power....

     

    The gauge circuit has three 10 ohm variable resistors in parallel: temp, oil, and fuel. At 5v that works out to 1.52A, and a 7805 is only good to 1.5A. That's pushing it some, of course not all three resistors are likely to be at minimum resistance at the same time. Cool- are you an electronics engineer?

  7. Posted · Report reply

    9 hours ago, 69RavenConv said:

    I thought I had some notes on this but I can't find them so I'm going from memory here. I don't claim this is 100% accurate schematically but I think it's close. Smarter folks than me will correct me if I'm wrong.

    The motor runs when voltage is applied across it, and stops when it's removed (obviously)

    In the HIGH position, a full 12V is applied across the motor, causing it to run at top speed.

    In the LOW position, a resistor in series drops the voltage applied to the motor, causing it to run at a slower speed.

    When RUNNING, a cam opens and closes the PARK SWITCH, applying 12V to slow position on the motor. When the switch is in HIGH or LOW, this is redundant and has no effect. When the switch is moved to OFF, however, the PARK switch continues to provide juice to the motor until it hits the PARK position. where the cam opens the switch, removing power, and the wipers stop. 

    When the switch is in the OFF position and the cam is in the PARK position, no power is applied

    wiper.jpg

    Ok good, you have verified what Dave is saying about the Park switch in the motor, on several counts.

    We have similar circuits. Yours works and is actually simpler than the Ford circuit shown on their diagram.

    In the FORD drawing there isn't a resistor, and instead it is drawn to indicate that there are two motor windings, one Hi and one Lo. Since you wouldn't want both windings on at the same time they separate the circuits by adding another Park switch, only the added switch is in the dash switch. 

    I'll never know for certain unless I open up the motor, but I feel fairly certain that the latest version of my schematic is how it operates, and that is shown above in the thread. BTW, the FORD version does work as drawn, it just has an extra throw on the motor Park switch (the Run contact) that doesn't do anything and is unneeded, SPDT instead of SPST.

    Thanks.

  8. Posted · Report reply

    3 hours ago, det0326 said:

    If I understand what you are asking the contact switch in the motor is always closed except when parked. It is closed when the motor is running but is independent from the run circuit and has nothing to do with run. When the wipers are running, then you turn the dash switch to off it energizes the park circuit that is tied to the low speed windings and drives the blades to park position . The limit switch opens and stops the motion. 

     

    After looking at your dia. i think maybe what you are wanting to know is the state of the switch when parked. I think what is confussion is the switch is a spst does not switch to ground at any point just opens the supply to the motor.

    Ahhh, the switch isn't SPDT!!! You are the only person on three forums that knew that!!! I knew the park contact and the ground were superfluous and I didn't understand why they were there. You provided the answer- they aren't there. The FORD drawing is wrong. The RUN switch is open when the wipers are down and closed at all other times, just as I suspected.

    Thanks Dave, please see the attachment and let me know if it makes sense now.

     

    WIPERS.pdf

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  9. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, danno said:

    If you are going to make real diagrams as you suggested, I think that will help  a lot of us. It also would help to show which wires bundles the wires are in, and which connectors they go through.   There are mistakes in the Ford schematics, and they also leave a lot of details out.  I can review some of these if you need them.

    You misunderstand- I'm making schematics, not wire diagrams.  Diagrams are useful when you need to identify and connect wires. Schematics (which are not available) make it easier to figure out how the circuit works. They are quite different. I don't know the kilobyte limit for posting, but I'll try to do so when I'm finished. 

    So does anyone know if the "motor position switch" in the wiper motor is in the "park" position when down, and in "run" at all other times?

  10. Posted · Report reply

    38 minutes ago, det0326 said:

    I think you are certainly on the right track Terry.  Don't know if you ever been into the motor/transmission or not but there's a limit switch  with a cam setup in the transmission part that is in series with the park wire and is opened when in the park position.

     

    Dave  

    Thanks, that's what I figured. Fortunately I've never had to take mine apart. I guess some of the older Stangs have a foot switch for some reason!!

    I'm converting the 37 pages of electrical diagrams and drawings from my FORD (Helm) manual to schematics. Diagrams certainly have their place, but jeez, they make it very difficult to figure out how something operates. The schematics will do that in a few pages, and you can actually see how it works. I don't have any problem with the electrical stuff but when something mechanical influences the electrical circuit (and I'm not familiar with it), then I'm in trouble. I believe this is one of those instances.

  12. Posted · Report reply

    Could someone check my work please? I couldn't find a coherent description of how the wipers work, so I drew-up a schematic based on the wire diagram (what the hell- boy is that useless??) and guessed at the operation. The switching didn't make sense so I guessed that the RUN position of the motor switch must cycle to PARK when the wiper blades are down.
    Thanks

    WIPER.pdf

  13. Posted · Report reply

    8 hours ago, Raven R code said:

    Any updates to these headlights? Could we possibly see a picture of what sticks out from the rear of the inboard lights? I know the heat sink is huge. Any pastes to the light pattern?

     

    thanks,

    Dave

    There is nothing new on their website and I didn't see anything new on YouTube (where they said they would put it)- but I could have missed it. I'd love to see photometry (I don't expect it), or even a light pattern from one of our guys.

  14. Posted · Report reply

    11 hours ago, 1969Fstback said:

    Thanks, the part I am missing is what the glass attaches too.  I've seen the glass.  Hoping to find a busted part that has the internals.  Guessing I won't and will need to buy a entire used mirror or repro.

    They have a used passenger lens assembly (with the mount attached to the glass) for $67.36. That's cheaper than buying a complete mirror.

  15. Posted · Report reply

    Google "uploads from West Coast Classic Cougar- You Tube" and watch #4, which is titled something like "Radiator and fan upgrade for SBF". You can use a BBF 7 blade fan with a clutch and it only robs around 12HP (don't buy theirs unless you have a lot of cash). Check the bolt pattern on yours, and go to Ebay. He explains why flex fans are a problem.

  18. Posted · Report reply

    hehee, I stand corrected. So why doesn't he lower the price, I mean isn't he in business to sell things at a profit?? Its hard to believe it has to be priced that high to make a profit. And its such and odd price ( $282.47). Maybe his business model is to make an obscene profit.

  21. Posted · Report reply

    18 hours ago, Midlife said:

    Dang carpetbaggers...

     
    car·pet·bag·ger
    ˈkärpətˌbaɡər/
    noun
    derogatory
     
    1. a political candidate who seeks election in an area where they have no local connections.
      • historical
        (in the US) a person from the northern states who went to the South after the Civil War to profit from the Reconstruction.
      • a person perceived as an unscrupulous opportunist.
        "the organization is rife with carpetbaggers"
         
         
    OK, I was just checkin', that's me- the last one
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  22. Posted · Report reply

    3 hours ago, Mike65 said:

    Here is a pic of the buttons from the AM/FM mono that I have, I removed the front plastic cover so you can see the complete buttons. The part stamped on the side in ink is #-D8AF-19A171-AA.

     

    100_1153.jpg

    Thanks Mike for the effort but it doesn't look like your buttons will fit through the bezel on mine. Mine are thinner and jog down to come out.  Thanks again.

  23. Posted · Report reply

    12 hours ago, Midlife said:

    Mach1Driver:

    Excellent description, and you took more time and effort than I can do it justice.  But, but, BUT: you had to let out the secret that electrons flow from negative to positive?  For that, you should be banned from the Exalted and Holy Electrical Union and forced to turn in your union card!  *G*

    I know, my bad- its more than most people can bear knowing, but I saw it on Wikileaks and just had to report on it !!! Full disclosure.

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  24. Posted · Report reply

    55 minutes ago, Bob & Sue said:

    Mach1 Driver thanks for posting this info. Good write up on gauges I also saved the word doc.

    I had an article from Mustang 360 bookmarked it is almost identical to your write up with pics on how to.

    http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/interior-electrical/mump-1005-ford-mustang-instrument-panel-troubleshooting/

    Yeah, but they have pretty pictures and we are limited in what we can upload.

  25. Posted · Report reply

    Gauge Operation

    EDIT: When saved the drawing that went here was deleted. Dang this doesn't make a whole lot of sense without it! I'll try attaching a Word file.

    To fully understand this you have to understand that everything electrical needs power to come in and go out. The two “Chassis Grounds” (one at each end) are connected together through the metal of the chassis. They did this to save money. Instead of running two wires they only run the power wire and connect to the chassis for the other. So current leaves the battery, goes through the sender, gauge, dash regulator, and back to the battery. Power in and out. Actual current flow is from negative to positive, not positive to negative as Benjamin Franklin arbitrarily assigned it. Heck he had a 50-50 chance, but maybe the whole thing with the lightning, kite and key used up some of this luck.

    1. The Battery: (or alternator- it doesn’t matter which) supplies the power.

    2. The Dash Voltage Regulator: knocks the voltage down to 5v. Why? Because that's the voltage they designed the gauges to run on. They didn't want sparks in the gas tank. Those old regulators are quirky little devices. They heat up a bi-metal that opens a switch, and that cools it off, and it does it again and again continually until the key is turned off. This makes the output: on-off-on-off-etc. They have it set up to be “on” for 42% of the time so over time you get an on-off cycle that averages 5v. The gauges are “dampened” to react slowly to this on-off so it seems like a steady 5v to them. Today we use a solid state circuit to get us an instantaneous solid 5v. You can replace your old style dash regulator for one if you like.

    3. The Gauge: this is really a simple motor that turns less than 180 degrees and has a pointer stuck on the end of the shaft. As I said, it is dampened so it responds slowly to input.

    4. The Sender: is a variable resistor. Its a resistor that is variable. A resistor impedes (limits) current flow. You can think of it as a valve if you like, that can be open a little or a lot. All the senders on our old Mustangs vary from 10 to 78 ohms. It doesn’t matter if its an oil gauge or a gas gauge. So if the sender was at 10 ohms you would get the maximum amount of current through the motor (gauge) and get HI pressure or a FULL tank, but if it was at 78 ohms you would get the minimum amount of current through the gauge and get LOW pressure or an EMPTY tank. 

    So your oil gauge doesn’t work; connect the wire at the sender to the block for a short period of time and see if the gauge responds. Don’t leave it on too long because the minimum resistance is supposed to be 10 ohms, not zero. The gauges are dampened so a short time won’t hurt, just don’t peg the gauge all the way over. If the gauge responds then replace the sender. If it doesn’t then it could be an open circuit (wire off) from the dash regulator to the gauge, or from the gauge to the sender, or a bad gauge. Instead of running wires on the back of the dash they saved money again and used a “Circuit Board”, which is copper printed on plastic. These can delaminate and get open spots over time but are available from the popular parts houses, or you can use real wires from one of our members- Midlife who makes a nice harness. Next, connect an ohmmeter to the wire at the gauge and the other at the sender end of the wire with it disconnected from the sender. It should read very close to zero. If it doesn’t then the wire is bad. The wire is #31 (white with red stripe) and goes from the sender through a plug (somewhere near the sender) then up to the plug for the circuit board. Its right in the middle of the plug, look for the white/red wire and connect the ohmmeter there and at the sender end. You can also test the gauge here. Connect a wire to chassis momentarily to see if the gauge responds. The key has to be on so make sure nothing is shorted with the gauge cluster pulled out, then connect to the white/red wire and chassis. If the gauge doesn’t move it is either the gauge or the circuit board.

    Ammeters in these beasts are a real weak link and usually only work for a short period of time. I can’t remember if mine ever worked. You can send them out and have them converted to a volt meter, which makes more sense anyway. They can keep the stock dial so it still looks like an ammeter if you are in to originality.

     

     

     

    Gauge operation, oil pressure.doc

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