smh00n
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Posts posted by smh00n
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I can't get SCE copper gaskets here, and the only Remflex are the smaller ones that need to be cut to match the ports on the heads.
I'll try 2 standard gaskets I have here in the next few days and see how they go.
I'm sort of resigned to buying new headers, which if I so will be FPA ones which will cost me a lot. Nothing else seems to fit with a Borgeson box and not hit or hang. Like someone else put on a review, these things have been around for 50 years, surely someone has made a set of headers that fit.
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I have 302 with RPM airgap and Sniper.
I have a K&N dropped bade air cleaner and it fits. I could not use a spacer as it went too high and hit the hood.
With the dropped base I have no issues with clearance, apart from not being able to get to the idle screw without removing the filter.
That progressive linkage is a must. Try it without first then change. The difference is noticeable, especially if your pedal is stiff as it takes out a massive fuel hit when both barrels open.
If you have not already bought it, this business rates pretty high for sales and more importantly support after the sale. https://www.efisystempro.com/
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On 6/16/2023 at 2:11 PM, RPM said:Regarding your bump steer:
•What are the symptoms?
•Have you done the 1 inch Shelby/Arning drop of the upper control arm?
•Is your suspension lowered?
The issue is on the rough roads we have locally, it is moving about. I'm not an expert on bump steer, but that is what it feels like - the wheel/s is moving under bumps.
Prior to the Borgeson instal, the car drove, I thought, very well for a 50 year old car. Sat flat, cornered nicely, etc.
Before the Borgeson;
New idler arm and rebuilt control valve
A steering box with literally 1/2" of free movement at centre (found that one on teardown)
The upper control arm has not been dropped, but I have used local Falcon XF front suspension. The spindle is taller, effectively doing a Shelby drop (so they tell me) and all bolts in. Mustangs are 2 door Falcons and this is common over here.
King springs which are heavier than standard but are not as heavy as the correct springs for the car, and also brings it down about 2" at the front. That's a poor description, so they are Ford TE Cortina 6 cylinder heavy duty springs from King Springs
1 1/8" front sway bar
Polyurethane bushes throughout
Junk el-cheapo shocks all around
No wheel alignment done at all except for eyeballing it.
Now, keep in mind prior to the Borgeson conversion this did drive well. It was fitted with an all-iron 302 and auto gearbox and in this setup I was very happy. Apart from some bottoming out it turned in well, sat flat and was great. Even with a poor wheel alignment, it didn't track left or right.
For the conversion, this is the recipe;
Borgeson box
Manual drag link which is not genuine Ford, some random brand I found on ebay. This is a potential problem as the tie rod ends did not fit well, the tapers were too big. Leave that one for later.
ACP repro manual pitman arm
Road & track manual roller idler arm
Roller bearing spring perches of some unknown brand
New Koni classic shocks all around, basically adjusted to halfway both ends
A wheel alignment, which shows it's not square as the passenger control rod is bottomed out and the drivers is about halfway. The shop could only get about 2.5° of castor, not the 3-4° Borgeson want. The car is still LHD, and our roads camber the other way but that has been dialled out in the alignment and the car drives straight as you can expect.
The new motor combo will be lighter, as it has alloy heads on it and steel headers, loosing all the cast iron top end.
Driving it now, it is 'edgy' and nervous. It seems to be only the drivers side that twitches and feels like it is moving. Big bumps do upset it but little ripples also give an uncomfortable feel through the wheel. I feel that when turning to the right, the right hand front wheel is 'falling over'. What I mean is when you turn the wheel it feels ok, but give it a little bit more inward turn and the wheel feels like it is tipping in. I really feel it is only the driver side and the passenger side is not affected. Slightly difficult as we are driving on the left but I don't think the LH side is a problem.
Maybe unrelated, but the previous engine was a dead 302 and I never pushed it. Now I have a stonking 347 and stick shift I am pushing it harder and I feel the car is moving on the suspension under good power. No, it's not wheel spin but more like something is loose, and also more to the rear. Is it related? Dunno.
I've had a quick look, but not indepth as I need some time away from it, is that possibly I have not centred the pitman arm. The driver side inner tie rod end is not in alignment with the lower control arm pivot, where the passenger side does look to be. Also, up on stands the drag link is not level but does come back to level when the car is on the wheels. It does seem to have better lock when turning left as opposed to a right turn.
The other possibility is the drag link. Being a 'no-name' brand it may be suspect but I would have to question that. I do recall thinking the tie rod ends bottomed out before the nut fully locked in but that may be poor memory. I cannot feel anything loose in the steering and can't hear or feel any movement. Being a '70 this has the bigger tie rod ends, so the drag link cannot be a '69, even if they were to differ.
I think I have 2 potential causes;
I have read on the interwebs, and tis may be false, that the Borgeson box has a 1/2" longer pitman shaft. When I put the repro manual pitman arm, it did not ride fully up the shaft so I suspected that was the problem: I had a roughly .500-.750" lower drag link on the driver side. That in theory would confirm it; as the suspension droops, the drag link comes down and kicks the wheel out. On the ground it looks flat but perhaps that is the tie rods taking the slack up.
Second, the actual drag link is not centred and the tie rods have been adjusted to fit (the suspension shop were scratching their heads over what settings to use, so maybe they just made it fit). Due to the roads around here being typically rough on the edges and smooth in the centre maybe I am getting a false positive by only hitting undulations on the driver side whilst the passenger side remains flat. (Not sure how I test that theory, hard to drive on the wrong side of the road I've found).
It's a strange one, most Borgeson converters rave about the change and how good it is. Maybe rather than posting on a forum I get under the car with a ruler and check it but with leaking headers and sump on top of this, along with Holley Sniper running issues I need a little lie down.
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I have a set of Patriot H8420 headers fitted to Dart Pro 1 alloy heads on a 302, and after about 100 or so miles, it looks like the last port on the drivers side is leaking. It literally just started one day - first few runs on the motor was great then it started chuffing.
I've done everything humanely possible to fix it, including milling the mount faces flat.
Has any one had any issues with this head and header combo? It's doing my head in.
I have screwed these things up so tight it's scary. And I am using multi-layer exhaust gaskets, including also putting a second standard one on hoping the extra thickness would cure it. Have cut the flanges, tightened them, even cussed them. Nuthin works.
The passenger side is perfect, the front of the drivers side is perfect.
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Thanks.
I have that sump gasket; I think the issue is the sump profile around the rear main. The front and sides are good.
I also have Moroso studs in the pan so plenty of clamp there. I'll drop it and see what's doing. I have a Ford sump on the old motor so I can pull it if I need to.
I have good locking bolts and multi layer gaskets. The issue is the rear pipe has pulled out from the head about 1/16" and nothing will fill that gap. Hopefully my man up the road has either milled the flanges flat or bent the pipe in and milled it to keep it all even. Cutting the flanges helped a little bit, but not enough.
The timing I think is an issue with the requirement to develop a timing map. I have a Pro billet distributor (#8479) with all 6AL electrickery.
I've had nearly a week away from it so I may find I see things clearer when I work on it again in a few days.
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More problems than solutions today. I have 4 issues currently and it's doing my head in.
1. Leaking rear main seal. I used a Scott Drake Boss 302 pan and pickup and didn't think it sealed the rear main real well. It was OK when first started as the oil was new, now it has some miles on it the black stuff is showing. I'm going to hit it with a tube of Dow Corning black silicone which sets firm and is flexible.
2. Bump steer. This one might be self-induced due to an installation issue. While I'm addressing this, I'll drop the oil pan. Don't you love 2-for-1 deals?
3. Leaking headers. Pulled them off 3 times, cut the flange between the ports, used 2 gaskets, still chuffing. Wound up the bolts as tight as I wanted to risk my alloy head threads. Plan A is to give them to the old guy up the road to try and mill the faces flat, as there is at least a 1/16" warp on them. Plan B is to buy FPA ones costing $1,250 for ceramic. The exchange rate for us is 68 cents in the dollar, so that is $1,850 and doesn't include freight or local taxes. Do I really want to spend 2 big ones on pipes??? Plan C is not yet announced.
4. The Holley Sniper. Man, they don't tell you the whole story on the box. "self learning" is actually just the fuel side. While you can control timing of the MSD through the Sniper software, you have to develop a timing map to suit your engine. Otherwise, it drives like a turd with no low down power and a power band a 500cc GP bike would be jealous of. Ask me how I know this. So, I now have to become a tuner, which defeats the purpose of buying this in the first place - I wanted a system that I could bolt on, click a few options and drive happily off into the Sunset. And back again. My first effort sucked, no power off idle and a giant lunge at about 2,000. My second attempt was better, much cleaner power delivery but missing a whole lot when under 2,000 in 4th gear. This thing has a 3.50 gear and little 15" wheels, so it's not unhappy doing that previously. With the old motor and no timing control I could not fault the system and thought it was the best thing. I guess with all things hot rodding you gotta have pain for gain.
I'm going to work on 1, 2 and 3 then address 4. I just can't drive with chuf chuf chuf going on.
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That's what I was doing but I wonder if I am 1/2 a turn out. I think it was like 3.75 turns lock to lock and I may have got it wrong (see the kicked outta skool issue above) or it moved as I didn't lock the steering wheel. Just eyeballing it quickly today it seems the drivers tie rod is not equal with the passenger one so if it is as easy as that I will be happy.
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Just now, Vicfreg said:The centering of the Pitman Arm is important. I remember moving the steering box back and forth to do this. I believe the Borgeson instructions address this.
Vic
I'll have to read the instructions. I was led to believe that the pitman arms could only go on one way, which may be the case but I think I may have not had the box actually centered when I hooked it all back up, and the wheel alignment shop may have made it worse with adjustments.
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S'alright - I am a bit of an expert on drag links pitman arms and Mustangs now.
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Thanks. I am now starting to suspect that I have the pitman arm not centered and that is causing the issue. I just looked at the car on the ground and the drag link is level, but the inner tie rod joints are not equal across the car.
I wonder if the wheel alignment recently done has been done incorrectly and they have lengthened the lh tie rod to compensate.
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@Vicfreg That pictured arm is a power steer I think. The manuals have a ball joint on them.
I would be interested in seeing your car, specifically the pitman arm and the LH inner tie rod end and the lower control arm pivot.
My car has the driver side inner tie rod pivot lower than the RH side, and I am told that is the issue. A suggestion was to lower the idler to be level but I'm not sure of that will fix it (I got kicked outta skool at 15 so missed the whole math thing)
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20 minutes ago, Cantedvalve said:Your center link upside down?
I will double check it but confident that cannot happen as the idler end has a welded stud.
My research today has discovered this.
The VMF forums has this thread which reveals that the Borgeson boxes are about 1/2" longer in the body. "But it shouldn't affect anything" they say.
Couple that with the fact that I thought the splines for the pitman arm were a bit short as the nut is even with the threads meaning the arm itself is a bit lower than stock, and I have got about an inch difference in the pivot point of the lower control arm and the inner tie rod.
The only option I can see is to lower the idler arm to level the drag link, but that seems to be inclined to introduce more bump steer. I need to do more research on this, there is divided opinions on the interwebs.
Plan B is to use the Borgeson ball stud adaptor with the p/s links, but that is a $450 cost for me, which I am not prepared to spend on any more Borgeson products.
Plan C is to refit all the OEM stuff. Which makes sense as I had a period where I decided against the Borgeson conversion, went and bought all new hoses etc for the OEM setup, and I have a guy who knows how to rebuild these boxes 10 minutes up the road. I only fitted the Borgeson as I had it, could not sell it and thought I may as well coz everyone said they were great. Not with a manual steer car it seems.
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Well that sucks. There is no way without putting a spacer on the drag link to raise it this thing will come up an inch.
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I have converted my 70 to Borgeson.
While it was a factory power steer, I chose to use all manual steer linkages - drag link, idler and pitman arm. The idler is an Open Tracker roller, the drag link is a non genuine one I bought years ago and I used an ACP pitman arm, which is listed as being for 67-70 as it has the 1 1/8" sector shaft.
The drivers side is sitting about an inch down from the lower arm pivot point, and I am getting bump steer.
The LH side is good and lines up level with the lower arm pivot.
When comparing the 2 pitman arms, there is about an inch difference where it joins to the drag link, and there is my issue:
Manual steer, on the car
Power steer, off the car 
Can anyone confirm if the OEM Ford manual steer pitman arms are straight or kinked up? And if they are straight how is the geometry managed?
I first thought the pitman arm was not far enough up on the sector shaft, but there's fractions in it, not inches. And I beat on it when installing it so I don't think there's any more travel left.
Yes, I could change back to power steer linkages, but all the manual stuff is new and I don't particularly like the Borgeson ball stud adaptor (OCD peaks when I see it).
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Good advice. I cut all flanges, as there was about 1/16" warp mainly on #7 & #8.
Have a slight choof now, I'm hoping as they heat and cycle they will pull in. I've got alloy heads so a bit wary of using a breaker bar to tighten the bolts to bring them in :)
Mach1 Driver reacted to this -
My new Patriot clippsters (I think part # H8433-1) are leaking at #8 and possibly #7 (rear cylinders, driver side)
It started a while after I installed them. Replaced the gasket but same issue, so possibly the flange is tweaked.
Is this a known problem? Yet to pull the down pipes to see if they are placing tension on the headers although I put the system in by hand and it wasn't tight.
Heads are Dart Pro 1 alloy that have been slightly ported, but I don't know how far out they have been taken. No other holes are leaking.
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I have the same tank and the top fittings are a pain. Been toying with the false floor thing so will be watching (can y'all put up dimensions, thicknesses, screw sizes ... :))
The Sniper idle issue seems to be common. I have only started to experience it with my new engine. There are a lot of video's on you tube on how to fix, some following Holley way and some just random. In a nutshell, the IAC needs to be shown some love by adjusting the idle screw.
Personally I don't think the tank vent is needed. The gas caps are not sealed (or mine is not) so they vent anyway. I ran my vent line straight back and down above the number plate light.
I too want your JD overflow bottle but the Trunk Monkey on the wall prevents me from coming and taxing it.
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8 minutes ago, Midlife said:The constant voltage regulator can be adjusted but it affects the fuel, oil, and temperature gauges. On the back of the CVR is either a small post or screw, often potted in epoxy. Turning it one way or another changes all 3 gauges at the same time. My preference is to ensure I have a 1/4 tank of gas, and set the CVR so that the fuel gauge reads 1/4 tank exactly. Both the oil and water gauges are "indicator gauges", in that once you determine where normal is, once they deviate from that position, then something is amiss. They are not precision instruments.
Thanks. I have an aftermarket one, but it has the potentiometer on it. Like I said, I dialled it up to 4.97V from about 4.90v and noticed a change.
I might wait till this thing is bone dry of gas and then adjust it so I have just under empty on the gauge using the CVR. IIRC I have set the fuel gauge sender in the Tanks Inc tank to be around that mark but it's not totally accurate.
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To further hijack this thread I have a question on voltage.
My gauge now works after removing the sealant. However it reads a bit high - the needle sits on the first leg of the 'M' in TEMP at around 185° which seems to be its' happy temperature.
I have an adjustable voltage regulator and have 4.97 volts going to the gauges. Does this voltage affect the reading scale or is that scale mechanically adjusted in the gauge? I saw another post about how to adjust gauges with the ratchet wheels.
I can change the sender back to the original one, as I only replaced it as everything else on the donk was new and I didn't want it to miss out.
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Progress report.
Sick of getting little black dots all over the front of the engine, so I decided to change the power steer pulley. I had bought one previously, but it had the wrong offset and it sat too far forward. Being impatient I left the 7/16" groove one on.
In the middle of that I decided I didn't like the coil on the driver inner fender. This is a shot from the original installation.
I saw that someone else had put the same Blaster II coil up on the drivers cylinder head, using a steel bracket. So, I think I may also do that whilst I will be playing with the power steer pump.
The way I modified the Borgeson bracket allows me to shorten the spacers to the head, so I can mount the bracket off these bolts and sit it vertical in this space. I'll trim the black bracket as well, it's a bit tractor like.
Today I also looked at the shock issue, and well, got a shock. The seller told me the car had Koni shocks all round, and being red I didn't disbelieve him at purchase. For some reason over the past 8 years I never actually stopped and had a look at them to confirm they were Koni. I don't know what's more dumb, me finding out they weren't Koni, or me posting on the interwebs that I thought they were Koni but they are actually a low rent cheap shit shock from a chain suspension store. Dammit. These things should only be put on baby's prams, they have as much bump resistance as a jelly dessert.
Luckily for me, a suspension place had 25% off Koni but I still took a $1,000 hit to the financial statement buying new Koni classic adjustables all around.
The temp gauge is now fixed, albeit reading a little bit high I think. At 180 it sits on the first leg of the 'M' in TEMP. Whilst I'm not overly fussed as I use the Sniper handheld to watch engine data, I probably should fix it.
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Ed, the issue with that gearset is 1st gear will not travel very far, the jump to 2nd will be large and if you have a decent cam it will fall off and go out of the power band. Or, 2nd will be close to 1st but a big jump to 3rd and again, you fall off the cam.
It depends on what you want - I am happy for mine to be a quick car so I paid for the TKO600 with the 2.87 1st gear. I have 3.50 and still need to use first in slow corners as the cam makes it shunt. If yours is a standard motor and you aren't worried about beating the kid in the econobox next to you it will probably be OK.
I think the Fox body Cobra and terminators had a good gearset. If the bank statement allows maybe you could look at that? G-Force also do a good strong gearset which could be an option.
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Spent 3 hours chasing nothing.
Few days ago I put a new temp gauge in, cleaned the thread sealer out of the sender. All working, tick it off. Yesterday, went for a drive, lit it up in 1st and 2nd, temp gauge stops working. Ok, maybe a wire is crimped or fell off (it has an aftermarket dash voltage reg).
Check resistance on sender, wiring loom, gauge. Seems to check out, except I made a rookie mistake and checked resistance across the gauge, not gauge to cluster chassis. Pull the cluster apart, check it all, reassemble. Confirm no shorts.
Put the cluster back, plug it in. No temp gauge. (I know what y'all are thinking by now).
Recheck it all. No electrickery leaks anywhere. Ground sender wire, gauge goes to the moon. Y'all are right....
Get 15/16" ring open end spanner. Haul on the sender and bush.
Temp gauge works.
Who woulda thought banging gears could affect the ground of a engine temperature sensor????
Will a stock air cleaner fit on a Holley Sniper?
in 1969-70 Technical Forum
Posted · Report reply
You needed to post this 2 days earlier :(.
I had a stock aircleaner but sold it on Saturday.
My K&N is 14" diameter if that helps any.