smh00n
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Posts posted by smh00n
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New parts fitted and new parts failed.
After my trip to the US, I arrived home with a set of FPA headers. I have to thank Stan - he built these in about 8 weeks and shipped them to my motel 2 weeks before I got there.
Before I fitted them I made up new, solid rear mounts for the mufflers. They are not pretty as I'd like so no shots, but they have 2 insulation rubbers each side and oth to the floor pan so I am hoping that issue is fixed.
I elected to go with the dark gray ceramic coat and grabbed a spare set of exhaust gaskets. Total cost in local $$$ over $2,000.
The quality is nice - neat welds, mandrel bent bends and thick flanges that have been dressed.
Only question I have is why the join on the #1 pipe.
The old set had been leaking on the #8 port on the drivers side. The RH bank never leaked at all so I'm stuffed why the LH one did.
The design of the pipes is also much better for access; all of them go down where the Patriot set went across the top on the driver side.
Resulting in having to bash a huge dent in the lower pipe to clear the Borgeson box.
Fitting the new ones - super easy. Both had to come up from underneath but they fit in well.
Cleared the Borgeson box no problems. But, I have concerns about the proximity to the clutch cable, steering idler and starter.
The clutch cable is $146 from MDL so I will have to wrap it pretty well with decent wrap (my Chinese sourced stuff failed on the speedo cable and it has melted through). The idler is a roller bearing unit so all I can do is grease it regularly. The starter although it has wrap and is a small one (no way you'd get a standard one in there) will need to have the wires wrapped as well.
As promised, the bottom of the headers are level with the frame rails, so scraping might be gone for the future.
Next steps are to do the pipes from the headers to the X pipe.
When I jacked it up, I noticed an oil stain under the LHR wheel. Having a good look, the axle seals are leaking and have spat oil all over the drums and inside of the wheel. Both are like that so I will need to pull the axles and check the seal, and probably replace the brake shoes. Dammit, you get stuff supplied that should be correct and it's not. Or, I fitted the seals wrong.
Also when looking underneath I found the reason for the banging on the floor when giving it some gas. Initially I thought it was the exhaust as the previous owner made a hash of the mounts and one broke. But, the driveshaft has been hammering on the floor due to axle tramp. I need some advice here - I have adjustable Koni on it so will ramp them up harder to try to stop it. I have fitted 1350 uni joints and yokes to the 8" so I wonder if the 9" cars had a longer diff snubber rubber off the body. I can't see any marks on the rubber so it seems the diameter of the yoke is allowing it to hit the floor before the snubber is reached. Can anyone advise if the 9" car snubber rubbers are longer?
Last, the old headers also were too close to the speedo cable and it has now melted and jammed. Only 26 bucks in US, $85 over here. I tried buying one in the US but no shop had them and I didn't go past a Summit or Jegs.
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They gotta pull a trailer to each track. Can’t do any outside help, only the driver and passenger can work on the car
Grabber70Mach reacted to this -
Currently following Drag Week as a spectator. Bit of a disappointment as some of the well known guys and girls are not here, but lots of ‘regular’ quick street cars.
2 of ‘our’ Mustangs here; a white 70 sport roof rocking a 427 Windsor on nitrous in the 8.50 class, and getting close to the 8.50. The other is a 69 coupe that is a bit slower, about 13 or 14 I think (too many cars to try to remember).
Also, in Rockingham was a driver quality 70 sports roof in Calypso Coral and black which might be a Mach 1 for sale. Now fitted with a 460. Pics attached if interested.
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Anyone going?
I'm dragging my sorry a** on a 22 hour flight to follow the 5 days.
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They bolt on fine, but the driver side leaks. I think the ports are too big for the headers, and its squeezing out the bottom of one pipe. I have tried *everything* to stop it. Funny, it only leaks on pone port on one side. The heads have been mildly ported so maybe the man got a bit keen on one port?
Anyway, Stan has built and sent a new set for me. I pick them up September 14 when I go to Bristol for the NASCAR race. Cannot wait, even though they cost me $2,000 local currency.
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I dropped the sump, added about a 1/3 tube of Dow Corning black silicone to each end.
After about 50 miles, no leaks. Hoping it stays that way.
Repop trash......
Mach1 Driver reacted to this -
Closing this one off.
First, I had been supplied 69 inner tie rod ends, not 70. Didn't think to check them properly when I fitted it all up.
Then the shop I had do the wheel alignment must have done a hack job, as the second shop that came recommended made it steer better.
I would not say it is fully happy, but it is very much improved to what I had.
At least now I can join the people saying that the Borgeson conversion is good.
Mach1 Driver and RPM reacted to this -
Update on this bump steer. Borgeson stated they had not found an issue in all their installs. They did suggest to pull the pitman arm and see if any paint was preventing it form sitting higher up on the sector shaft, which was going to be plan B.
Whilst thinking about the steering I pulled the sump to fix the rear main seal leak. Half a tube (literally) of Dow Corning black silicone later it was back on. It don't leak so far, fingers crossed. Looked up and the p/s pump had a weep from the pressure hose. Reefed on that fitting to tighten it.
Whilst under there I had a look at the tie rod ends. Found out that I had been supplied 1969 items, not 70 which may not have helped the steering issue. I replaced them with new 1970 ones.
I thought I'd try another shop for a wheel alignment, so I went to one recommended by another Stang owner, which luckily was 20 minutes away. An hour later, the new shop had pretty much dialled out the problem. It's not *perfect* but it is much better than it was. I'm glad that is sorted.
Last, found a helpful person on the Holley Sniper forum, who gave me some tips and provided a new configuration file. The PCV valve was the older flapper style so I spent 28 bucks on Amazon getting a fixed orifice one, and plumbed it into the front vacuum port of the Sniper. The oil breather cap was also puking oil out when I gave it a Big Rev, so I replaced it with a Cleveland (uurrgghh) style cap with the hose into the air cleaner. It still leaks, but only slightly.
The new tune was pretty wild - lit up the rears in first and second on power, and rolling in second it would light them up at will. (I had some fun with a sports bike behind me, showing him the side stripe at will). Not really practicable but, so I pulled the timing back a bit which has toned it down. But I miss the sideways action so I might stick a couple of degree's more timing back in (insert evil emoji here). But it sounds alright I think.
After all that, I finally washed it after 10 months of shop dust got to me, and hit with a random DA polisher and some Poor Boys EXP paint sealant. It's a good looking car from 10 feet but the paint is crud and I have managed to put all sorts of chips and marks in the paint. Lucky I prefer drivers not show queens.
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Well I got a reply back from Patriot who tell me these headers are not designed to fit Dart heads. Summit don't say they will or won't :(
Anyway, Stan at FPA has really stepped up and is building me a set to pick up when I go to the Bristol NASCAR night race next month. It's only a $2,000 cost, what else would I do with the cash.
Mach1 Driver and RPM reacted to this -
@RPM I am grabbing false hopes I realise. And I am letting the interwebs know it :(
The steering tie rods are on a different angle to the lower control arms on both sides, and I suspect that's my issue. They are facing up from the inner joint and that's my problem.
Here Down Under, our road authorities will not allow any changes to suspension or steering especially with welding, and rod ends are also out. Remember, these decision-makers know better than us and are only saving our sorry asses. Makes me feel better when I see that tax money go out each week. Not.
But, I have other issues, being the repop drag link I bought has the taper too large to fit the tie rods into. They bottom out before they tighten, and I have had to put washers under the nuts to tighten them. So, the drag link need is more to fix that than the bump steer and appease my OCD. And since I had to pull it all to drop the sump to fix the leak (thanks Scott Drake) I thought I'd replace it.
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$400+ down here.
Plus I have new roller idler and a pitman arm, so I don't really want to go back to that old stuff.
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Sorry, it's a manual steer one.
I need it for a Borgeson conversion which is giving me static
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Yeah, I don't know why I am considering them.
I have their repro B302 oil pan that leaks something fierce from the rear main. Doesn't even come close to the correct radius.
Second Felpro one piece gasket just ordered and a gallon of RTV :(
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Folks
Trying to figure out my bump steer issue I thought I would try a new drag link.
The one I have needs washers behind the nut of the 2 inner tie rod ends to snug up the taper on the joint, so something isn't right. It was a repro which was NOS and in a bag with an orange and yellow logo, but I don't remember much more than that.
I see Scott Drake now have repro's and whilst I'd prefer an OEM Ford one, these might be the answer.
Has any one used one or know of the quality? For me, its a $400 cost to buy one so I need to know if they are decent as it's a lot of cash if they are the same as what I have.
Part number is D0ZZ-3304-CI (suffix is A for OEM)
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You needed to post this 2 days earlier :(.
I had a stock aircleaner but sold it on Saturday.
My K&N is 14" diameter if that helps any.
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I can't get SCE copper gaskets here, and the only Remflex are the smaller ones that need to be cut to match the ports on the heads.
I'll try 2 standard gaskets I have here in the next few days and see how they go.
I'm sort of resigned to buying new headers, which if I so will be FPA ones which will cost me a lot. Nothing else seems to fit with a Borgeson box and not hit or hang. Like someone else put on a review, these things have been around for 50 years, surely someone has made a set of headers that fit.
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I have 302 with RPM airgap and Sniper.
I have a K&N dropped bade air cleaner and it fits. I could not use a spacer as it went too high and hit the hood.
With the dropped base I have no issues with clearance, apart from not being able to get to the idle screw without removing the filter.
That progressive linkage is a must. Try it without first then change. The difference is noticeable, especially if your pedal is stiff as it takes out a massive fuel hit when both barrels open.
If you have not already bought it, this business rates pretty high for sales and more importantly support after the sale. https://www.efisystempro.com/
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On 6/16/2023 at 2:11 PM, RPM said:Regarding your bump steer:
•What are the symptoms?
•Have you done the 1 inch Shelby/Arning drop of the upper control arm?
•Is your suspension lowered?
The issue is on the rough roads we have locally, it is moving about. I'm not an expert on bump steer, but that is what it feels like - the wheel/s is moving under bumps.
Prior to the Borgeson instal, the car drove, I thought, very well for a 50 year old car. Sat flat, cornered nicely, etc.
Before the Borgeson;
New idler arm and rebuilt control valve
A steering box with literally 1/2" of free movement at centre (found that one on teardown)
The upper control arm has not been dropped, but I have used local Falcon XF front suspension. The spindle is taller, effectively doing a Shelby drop (so they tell me) and all bolts in. Mustangs are 2 door Falcons and this is common over here.
King springs which are heavier than standard but are not as heavy as the correct springs for the car, and also brings it down about 2" at the front. That's a poor description, so they are Ford TE Cortina 6 cylinder heavy duty springs from King Springs
1 1/8" front sway bar
Polyurethane bushes throughout
Junk el-cheapo shocks all around
No wheel alignment done at all except for eyeballing it.
Now, keep in mind prior to the Borgeson conversion this did drive well. It was fitted with an all-iron 302 and auto gearbox and in this setup I was very happy. Apart from some bottoming out it turned in well, sat flat and was great. Even with a poor wheel alignment, it didn't track left or right.
For the conversion, this is the recipe;
Borgeson box
Manual drag link which is not genuine Ford, some random brand I found on ebay. This is a potential problem as the tie rod ends did not fit well, the tapers were too big. Leave that one for later.
ACP repro manual pitman arm
Road & track manual roller idler arm
Roller bearing spring perches of some unknown brand
New Koni classic shocks all around, basically adjusted to halfway both ends
A wheel alignment, which shows it's not square as the passenger control rod is bottomed out and the drivers is about halfway. The shop could only get about 2.5° of castor, not the 3-4° Borgeson want. The car is still LHD, and our roads camber the other way but that has been dialled out in the alignment and the car drives straight as you can expect.
The new motor combo will be lighter, as it has alloy heads on it and steel headers, loosing all the cast iron top end.
Driving it now, it is 'edgy' and nervous. It seems to be only the drivers side that twitches and feels like it is moving. Big bumps do upset it but little ripples also give an uncomfortable feel through the wheel. I feel that when turning to the right, the right hand front wheel is 'falling over'. What I mean is when you turn the wheel it feels ok, but give it a little bit more inward turn and the wheel feels like it is tipping in. I really feel it is only the driver side and the passenger side is not affected. Slightly difficult as we are driving on the left but I don't think the LH side is a problem.
Maybe unrelated, but the previous engine was a dead 302 and I never pushed it. Now I have a stonking 347 and stick shift I am pushing it harder and I feel the car is moving on the suspension under good power. No, it's not wheel spin but more like something is loose, and also more to the rear. Is it related? Dunno.
I've had a quick look, but not indepth as I need some time away from it, is that possibly I have not centred the pitman arm. The driver side inner tie rod end is not in alignment with the lower control arm pivot, where the passenger side does look to be. Also, up on stands the drag link is not level but does come back to level when the car is on the wheels. It does seem to have better lock when turning left as opposed to a right turn.
The other possibility is the drag link. Being a 'no-name' brand it may be suspect but I would have to question that. I do recall thinking the tie rod ends bottomed out before the nut fully locked in but that may be poor memory. I cannot feel anything loose in the steering and can't hear or feel any movement. Being a '70 this has the bigger tie rod ends, so the drag link cannot be a '69, even if they were to differ.
I think I have 2 potential causes;
I have read on the interwebs, and tis may be false, that the Borgeson box has a 1/2" longer pitman shaft. When I put the repro manual pitman arm, it did not ride fully up the shaft so I suspected that was the problem: I had a roughly .500-.750" lower drag link on the driver side. That in theory would confirm it; as the suspension droops, the drag link comes down and kicks the wheel out. On the ground it looks flat but perhaps that is the tie rods taking the slack up.
Second, the actual drag link is not centred and the tie rods have been adjusted to fit (the suspension shop were scratching their heads over what settings to use, so maybe they just made it fit). Due to the roads around here being typically rough on the edges and smooth in the centre maybe I am getting a false positive by only hitting undulations on the driver side whilst the passenger side remains flat. (Not sure how I test that theory, hard to drive on the wrong side of the road I've found).
It's a strange one, most Borgeson converters rave about the change and how good it is. Maybe rather than posting on a forum I get under the car with a ruler and check it but with leaking headers and sump on top of this, along with Holley Sniper running issues I need a little lie down.
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I have a set of Patriot H8420 headers fitted to Dart Pro 1 alloy heads on a 302, and after about 100 or so miles, it looks like the last port on the drivers side is leaking. It literally just started one day - first few runs on the motor was great then it started chuffing.
I've done everything humanely possible to fix it, including milling the mount faces flat.
Has any one had any issues with this head and header combo? It's doing my head in.
I have screwed these things up so tight it's scary. And I am using multi-layer exhaust gaskets, including also putting a second standard one on hoping the extra thickness would cure it. Have cut the flanges, tightened them, even cussed them. Nuthin works.
The passenger side is perfect, the front of the drivers side is perfect.
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Thanks.
I have that sump gasket; I think the issue is the sump profile around the rear main. The front and sides are good.
I also have Moroso studs in the pan so plenty of clamp there. I'll drop it and see what's doing. I have a Ford sump on the old motor so I can pull it if I need to.
I have good locking bolts and multi layer gaskets. The issue is the rear pipe has pulled out from the head about 1/16" and nothing will fill that gap. Hopefully my man up the road has either milled the flanges flat or bent the pipe in and milled it to keep it all even. Cutting the flanges helped a little bit, but not enough.
The timing I think is an issue with the requirement to develop a timing map. I have a Pro billet distributor (#8479) with all 6AL electrickery.
I've had nearly a week away from it so I may find I see things clearer when I work on it again in a few days.
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More problems than solutions today. I have 4 issues currently and it's doing my head in.
1. Leaking rear main seal. I used a Scott Drake Boss 302 pan and pickup and didn't think it sealed the rear main real well. It was OK when first started as the oil was new, now it has some miles on it the black stuff is showing. I'm going to hit it with a tube of Dow Corning black silicone which sets firm and is flexible.
2. Bump steer. This one might be self-induced due to an installation issue. While I'm addressing this, I'll drop the oil pan. Don't you love 2-for-1 deals?
3. Leaking headers. Pulled them off 3 times, cut the flange between the ports, used 2 gaskets, still chuffing. Wound up the bolts as tight as I wanted to risk my alloy head threads. Plan A is to give them to the old guy up the road to try and mill the faces flat, as there is at least a 1/16" warp on them. Plan B is to buy FPA ones costing $1,250 for ceramic. The exchange rate for us is 68 cents in the dollar, so that is $1,850 and doesn't include freight or local taxes. Do I really want to spend 2 big ones on pipes??? Plan C is not yet announced.
4. The Holley Sniper. Man, they don't tell you the whole story on the box. "self learning" is actually just the fuel side. While you can control timing of the MSD through the Sniper software, you have to develop a timing map to suit your engine. Otherwise, it drives like a turd with no low down power and a power band a 500cc GP bike would be jealous of. Ask me how I know this. So, I now have to become a tuner, which defeats the purpose of buying this in the first place - I wanted a system that I could bolt on, click a few options and drive happily off into the Sunset. And back again. My first effort sucked, no power off idle and a giant lunge at about 2,000. My second attempt was better, much cleaner power delivery but missing a whole lot when under 2,000 in 4th gear. This thing has a 3.50 gear and little 15" wheels, so it's not unhappy doing that previously. With the old motor and no timing control I could not fault the system and thought it was the best thing. I guess with all things hot rodding you gotta have pain for gain.
I'm going to work on 1, 2 and 3 then address 4. I just can't drive with chuf chuf chuf going on.
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That's what I was doing but I wonder if I am 1/2 a turn out. I think it was like 3.75 turns lock to lock and I may have got it wrong (see the kicked outta skool issue above) or it moved as I didn't lock the steering wheel. Just eyeballing it quickly today it seems the drivers tie rod is not equal with the passenger one so if it is as easy as that I will be happy.
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Just now, Vicfreg said:The centering of the Pitman Arm is important. I remember moving the steering box back and forth to do this. I believe the Borgeson instructions address this.
Vic
I'll have to read the instructions. I was led to believe that the pitman arms could only go on one way, which may be the case but I think I may have not had the box actually centered when I hooked it all back up, and the wheel alignment shop may have made it worse with adjustments.
TKO conversion - back up switch and neutral start hacks
in 1969-70 Technical Forum
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Closing this one out, as a job done. Although, I do question the need for a relay as when I was proving the power wires, there was only 0.240 volts coming through when the ignition was on. I don't know if that beefs up when the starter is engaged or not.
@Rich Ackermann the word description has you using 2 terminal 30. The picture is correct so the wiring sequence is
30 - power in from the OEM NSS wiring on the plug
86 - power in from the OEM NSS wiring on the plug - I jumped these at the #30 terminal with the piggy back wire
87 - power out through the relay back to the OEM NSS wiring on the plug
85 - ground from the NSS switch
Basically all you are doing is grounding the relay with the NSS which allows power to flow through the relay and completes the circuit
I cut the replacement 4
speed harness wires and soldered in two new wires. I should have kept the auto loom but the guy who box the gearbox wanted it so I chopped up a brand new repro.
I got smart and put some red heatshrink on the power side, so I knew what way to wire the relay.
For the life of me I could not find out what type of connector is used on the plug, so I replaced it with a Deutsch connector. First time I used one, I'm converted. Whilst they are easier to assemble than the Delphi Weatherpack, they are dearer and the correct tool is eye watering expensive.
Once crimped, shrinked, tied and mounted (I hung the relay under the RH strut brace so it's somewhat hidden but easy to access), the proof was in the starting. It hasn't showed up real well but I started it in neutral and then shifted it into 1st. Cut out straight away.
Tick that job off the list :)