Total Control Products
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Posts posted by Total Control Products
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has anyone here went from the stock single piston rotor to a wilwood 4 piston?
Are you asking if anyone has used a Wilwood caliper with stock hubs and rotors? While it's possible that someone has I am not aware of any that have. Even if there was a caliper that would fit the stock rotor you would then have to machine a custom mount. Wilwood does not offer a 'replacement' caliper for these cars.
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We sell Wilwood and their Mustang M/C is a 0.875" so the 15/16" from Baer makes sense. The pedal ratio needs to be roughly 6:1. It will work great. Lots of feedback. Quality modern brakes are more efficient; they don't need all the pressure that a stock booster style system will put out.
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Lokar has hardware to make a kit yourself. Wilwood now offers a kit that's ready to go, assuming you have the internal parking brake style kit. It's here - http://www.wilwood.com/Hardware/HardwareProd.aspx?itemno=330-9371 You can get it from your favorite Wilwood supplier.
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RE Tire Sidewall: Barnett468 speaks the truth. While the lower profile tires provide more predictable handling they do so at the sacrifice of ride compliance. They transmit more noise, vibration, and harshness (commonly referred to as NVH) than a taller sidewall simply because they are much stiffer. I like to think about the tire as another spring. Because it is a shorter spring it has to be stiffer to keep from bottoming out whereas a longer spring can be softer to absorb impacts over a greater distance.
Most new cars have fairly low profile tires, so I think we're kind of used to it at this point. Granted, there's a big difference between handling like a new Mustang and a new Camry. Thank God!
On a separate note: Yep, I'm here to talk about Total Control Products. Ya got me. :-) But I'm also here to help make sure that people get the parts they need and that they know how they work. And, more often than not, to dispel rumors and incorrect information. The average car guy can tell you all about the benefits of one cam vs another but doesn't know a whole lot about suspension. I'm kind of the opposite. I'm the last guy you want helping to build your engine, but I can help you tune the chassis package.
FVike told me about this forum when he called about fixing his Sportsroof a couple years ago. I stop in now and then to see how things are going on his build, and a couple others. Not nearly as often as I would like.
I only field a handful of sales calls a day. The rest of the time I spend answering tech emails, running our Facebook pages, and cruising the forums for questions and trying to provide some tech insight. Sorry if I've stepped on any toes in the process.
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The fact is that you do NOT need coil over shocks to make it ride well, nor will they make it ride any differently than standard shocks but lots of companies would like to make you think it will.
You are absolutely right! A properly matched set of shocks and springs are the goal. It doesn't matter if they are coilovers, coil springs, leaf springs, torsion bars, or airbags- as long as they are correct for the job they need to do. However, the benefit of a coilover is that you can fine tune the spring and that there are more rates to choose from. Apples to apples, the ride quality should be the same.
However, spring and shock mounting position does have an impact on ride quality and suspension performance. As a coilover assembly is physically smaller we can improve the motion ratio which allows us to run a lighter spring, due to more mechanical advantage, and this does improve the ride quality. Also, properly engineered coilover system has less stiction in the shock and spring assembly than a coil spring style setup. This also improves ride quality and makes it quieter.
Chris actually wrote a really informative article on the subject: Coilover Conversions Explained.
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The spring is not the primary contributor to ride quality. It's pretty much only in the mix to keep the car from dragging on the ground. The shock is the brains of the operation, but there is more to it than just a good shock with the proper spring rate.
There are several things that you want the suspension to do:
1. Keep the tires contact patch flat on the road surface.
2. Maintain precise control of suspension travel arcs and spindle position.
3. Control wheel movement without a harsh ride.
4. Reduce the amount of body roll and pitch.
5. Provide adjustability for tuning purposes.
You can learn more about the options that we offer by reading THIS DOCUMENT or by giving us a call. We manufacture four different base systems for the front of the Mustang. See them all HERE. Each has a lot of configuration options. I'm happy to talk you through all the ins and outs.
TCP (Total Control Products)is the front end I'll be using on mine. It's bolt in.
Thanks Trinity!
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No matter what style coil spring compressor you use just make sure to go slow and steady and use lots of lubricant. Anti-sieze gets everywhere, but it's easier to clean up than blood or scratched bodywork.
I've never seen the 'shock style' compressor and neither has our senior tech. It's an interesting idea, seems like it would work pretty well. Let us know how it goes!
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oh and stay away from urethane strut rod bushings if you decide to go with them! just use rubber bushings. harder bushings will put stress on the strut rod and eventually it could snap. I know from first hand experience.
We've seen this as well. Definitely only use rubber with the stock strut rods.
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Carl, what would you suggest?
Well, that comes down to what you want from the car. If it's mostly a weekend cruiser and you just want it to be more predictable, then upgrading the lower arm and/or the strut rods will make a big improvement. If you have a heavier foot and like to charge the corners from time to time, then you might consider going to a complete coilover system. We can get the front end lower than shown in your pics above or, if you like the stance, we can configure a system that will put it pretty darn close. If you're somewhere in between, there's options for that too.
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Hey there,
While worn bushings are definitely concerning, a contributing factor to your alignment changes could be the eccentric adjuster in the lower control arm. We recommend installing an Eccentric Eliminator kit which is essentially a lock-out for the lower control arm. I was going to paste a picture but it looks like we recently added a video the site. CLICK HERE.
Swapping out the lower control arms isn't rocket science. As long as you're careful when removing the coil spring it's relatively fool-proof. It's not a ten-second job, but it cam be accomplished with common tools. There are several sources for replacement OEM style arms that are reasonably priced and already have the bushings installed. It's worth the extra couple bucks to just replace the arm as it's murder getting the bushings out.
However, while the car will handle better, it's not going to handle amazing. It's still gonna have bump steer issues and dive for the ditch when you slam on the brakes. The lower control arm and strut rod have huge rubber bushings that conspire to make the car 'safe' for the average driver and unpredictable for the spirited driver. If you have considered upgrading the suspension in the past, now is the perfect time to do it.
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Wow, Frode! I had not checked on your car in a while. I logged in today and I see that you have made a lot of progress. It's looking great!
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Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has been taking advantage of our Holiday Deals. The factory is working like crazy to get everything shipped before Christmas!
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Well, here we are the day before Thanksgiving. Some of us are stuck at work, some are traveling, and others are already out in the garage being thankful for the horsepower that has been given them.
We will be closed tomorrow and Mike will be the only guy answering the phone Friday (7-3) and Saturday (8-1). That's Pacific time, of course. You can also stop in for will calls. However, that's not the only way you can save.
We are not going to limit our sales to just one day, or just one weekend. All of the special pricing and discount codes are live NOW on our website. They're good through December 31st. You can use them ordering online or over the phone.
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Yes, that's what I was suggesting. I honestly didn't think about bleeding. I mainly deal with Wilwood brakes and they have bleeder bolts top and bottom. Comes in handy in situations like this.
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Can you flip it left to right so the mechanism is under the axle tube?
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Polyurethane usually has a higher durometer than most rubbers which means less compliance in the system. That makes the whole car feel more precise. It needs to be kept lubricated. Both rubber and poly bushings do not respond well to overtightening. It's like a spring -eventually it loses its ability to rebound. The same stem-and-nipple style bushing configuration is used on the top of the front shocks and both ends of the rears.
This is all the tighter they should be. (Image from TCP ARFM instructions.)
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The smooth body shocks use the same eyelets as the coilover, providing they are eye/eye configuration.
Standard Eyelets
A = 1.25"
B = 2.20"
C= 1.40"
Shortened Eyelets
A = 0.75"
B = 2.20"
C= 0.90"
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...what other dimensions do you need? It is company policy that we do not publish engineering schematics so I can't just email you a drawing, I don't even have access to one. That said, it's a coilover shock, they are all shaped pretty much the same. O.D. of the whole assembly is under 3.50" assuming you don't select an extremely high spring rate.
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Ah, the custom shock option. Those are typically ordered directly through Nick, the VariShock manager, so I didn't recognize the format. Looking at the breakdown of 8A22111-6 it's exactly the same as THIS SHOCK.
The second shock is the same configuration except with short base and short eyelet so it would be an inch shorter. Short base is -.5" and short eye is -.5". That would yield an extended length of 17.1" and compressed length of 10.95".
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I was looking for detailed outline dimension drawings of the following two example part numbers as I was trying to make my own axle housing mounts and determine where to position a crossmember on the car along with the associated bracketry. The catalog only dimensions extended and compressed eye to eye lengths,bearing width and ID info along with relative lengths for the mounts.
8A 2 21 11 -6 (standard length base and top)
8A 2 11 91 -6 (short length base and top)
These aren't valid VariShock part numbers. Send me a PM with your email and a link to what you're looking for regarding mounts and we'll try to work it out.
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I talked with someone a month ago on the phone asking for some basic dimensions of the coilover shocks. I provided my email and they said they would get me some information. They have not provided that information. I'm very disappointed about that. It's more disappointing that they told me they would do something and didn't as opposed to simply saying they can't.
I'm sorry to hear that. We keep a fairly small, but very knowledgeable, staff so sometimes things can get overlooked in the shuffle. Maybe they copied your email down incorrectly and didn't have another way to reach you? All the shock dimensions are available on our website. If you can't find what you're looking for I'll be happy to help.
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Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Frode, get that car out of the garage and back on the road already!
Topless69GT,
Thanks for taking the time to call us about your Mustang suspension and steering needs. As one of the first companies to produce a performance suspension system for the early Mustang we have seen a lot of changes come to the market and have been able to evolve our system over time. When TCP moved ten miles further up the road to become part of the Chris Alston's Chassisworks family we were able to take advantage of their superior manufacturing capabilities to improve our system even further. Our lower control arm and strut rod pivots are a good example of this. Both feature TrueCenterâ„¢ pivot sockets which eliminates the potential binding of our earlier, often duplicated, traditional rod-end based pivots.
The VariShock coilover was developed exclusively for this application to give maximum clearance for stock-style anti-roll bars yet still have an excellent suspension motion ratio. There are literally thousands of VariShocks in use on cars all over the world from six-second pro-mods to daily driven pickups. They are constantly evolving and completely rebuildable.
It's true, our rack and pinion is not cheap. We didn't cut corners by using an off-the-shelf rack from another vehicle which had 'close enough' geometry and 'not exactly' the same amount of travel. We worked and kept developing until we had a system that is completely our own, easy to install, and super easy to drive.
Our factory supported race car has the power rack paired with the Pro-Pump system. Kevin (who is the owner and driver) likes it because it helps him expend less energy when he's battling for first place with Porches and Corvettes in SCCA competition. It also has our coilover system, rear torque arm suspension, subframe connectors, and double-adjustable VariShock coilovers at all four corners. As much as it wins, it's a pretty simple car. It just works really well. Kevin has the same parts on his 65 street car and '67 GT350. Except the GT350 still has leaf springs in back.
I don't get onto this forum nearly as much as I should. I love talking about our components. If you have any questions, feel free to shoot me a PM, email, or call me directly at ext 247.
Oh yeah, you can watch a few install videos on our site. Here's a new one from CJ Pony Parts that shows the FCOC install on a '70 Mustang.
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Bob, IF those parts were there they would have been on a table next to the trailer. And if Mike was taking a bathroom/race watching break he would have locked them up. They're pretty awesome.
Hey Frode, you mind if I share those pics of the...Trollstigen on Facebook and quote you as saying "No trouble with the TCP rack or bumpsteer kit on this road." Is the road always that busy or do you get to drive it faster sometimes?
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That's a pretty cool setup. Good thinking! I bet it saved you at least an hour, maybe more!
This is what we came up with for the bumpsteer adjuster on our billet upright. The stud is stainless, is pocket milled on the end for an Allen wrench, and the steering arm is threaded. This goes on our gStreet chassis. We're working on the Mustang version of the front suspension right now.
Sorry about the massive pics, I couldn't find a version that was a little smaller.
rear brake conversions
in 1969-70 Technical Forum
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Are you referring to the 'Classic Series' brake kit, # 140-13476? That front kit is designed to fit inside a factory Disc Brake style 14" wheel. It uses a stock STYLE rotor in that the hub, hat, and rotor are integrated. However, it is not a Ford piece.