latoracing
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Posts posted by latoracing
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Removed the pipes from the car this afternoon to get this section welded up. I tack welded a piece of stainless angle between the inlets to help hold them in position while welding. It would be really bad if these things moved a bunch and didn't fit the headers any more.
The usual skipping around method works well on pipe systems too. It keeps everything nice and cool (so I don't get burnt to pieces), less distortion and less moving of the pipes (cause I'm lazy). Just weld everything you can get to and move everything around to get to the next area. it took a little bit, but eventually I got all the joints welded shut. Once it all cooled off I removed the angle and started getting this section cleaned up. A little red scotch-brite and it will look presentable.
One side almost cleaned up compared to as welded side. I like the cleaned up side without the HAZ around the welds. I'll get this bolted back on the car and continue fitting pieces of the puzzle together.
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Measure, cut, tack, cut apart, repeat... fitting a 2.5" X pipe to a convertible is fun. I'm half tempted to get my rotisserie out and put this thing on it (not really, but it would be easier). Getting all the angles to work together, and keep the O2 sensor bungs in position. I am going for maximum clearance at the transmission yoke and fitment through the "tunnel" along with keeping the front portion tight to the body. The C6 cross member doesn't have much clearance for exhaust on the drivers side so I kept both sides at the same height. The pipe sticks down about 1.75" beyond the floor supports.
Before I chopped up the X pipe, I laid out where I wanted it to land in the car. The trans is 1" to the drivers side and I wanted the X centered on it, basically for the yoke to clear, but I would go nuts knowing it was out of center. Getting it all butchered up and removing all of the slip joints the fitting began. If you notice in the following picture, the X is going up hill. This was really fun to calculate the angles for. I cut the back sections of tube off a little staggered, as they are fixing to switch sides next time out.
Most of all the joints fit really tight but the Pypes tubing is just a little larger than the mandrel bends I was using to fit the parts. I'll get them hammered in place to smooth out the connections. I'll be removing this section to get it on the table and fry all the pieces together as it is a little more manageable in this state.
Looking up from the floor, it looks quite simple...
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1 hour ago, Mach1 Driver said:I like your little fixture on the band saw
It is very helpful. I used it a bunch when I did my headers. Very accurate angles and nice straight cuts. All built out of leftovers...
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Got started fitting tubing into its new home. I have sorta mapped out how I hope this will run, so I started with the collectors... obviously. Since I'm playing with 2.5" tube my saw guide needed a new block to help hold stuff in place. I didn't have any more UHMW so this one is out of treated lumber. It will do for now.
A few measurements and several checks for the proper degree, the bends were cut to 52 degrees for both sides. The first part I cut had just the right amount of straight on it so it got tack welded to the collector and the extension.
Checking for fitment on the car, it looks pretty good, not quite as high as I want it, but the trans brace is going to dictate it's location. The tube is a tad bit higher than the trans pan.
I am going to cut off the slip fit on these parts as I like the clean look of butt welds, plus this slip fit is going the wrong way :) I removed the O2 sensor from the drivers side and installed it on the passenger side. Measured the straight section from the collector to the elbow, cut and tack welded it in place along with the other extension. I stuck it in place to check for fitment.
So far, so good. I'll be messing with the X pipe next to do some surgery on it so it will play nice with the tight confines between the seat reinforcements and removing stupid stickers from all these parts. They don't want them coming off...
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I have been scoping out the exhaust and seeing what types of fitment issues are going to raise their ugly heads. Vic had a Pypes stainless 2.5" X pipe kit to start with. The generic fitment was surprising as the X and both tail pipes kinda fit without cutting, YET! I spent some of his hard earned money on items needed to hang this system along with some MagnaFlow mufflers.
These things will get cleaned up as they are not going to stay looking like this. I started at the headers with the collectors. The fuel injection system needs an O2 sensor for obvious reasons so I installed the appropriate bungs and mostly welded them in place, then stuck them on the car.
I added another bung on the passenger side as I am not so sure if something might interfere on the drivers side. Either one can be plugged off if not used.
Messing with the X pipe it will be cut into several pieces shortly as the width is way too tight..
and i want to center it a little better for drive shaft yoke clearance.
The down tubes are MIA on this kit so I have a bunch of mandrel bends to help snake this through the tunnel and get it fitting with the pan-hard bar in the rear.
This setup is tight, but once it is all in position I'm going to make it fit without spacing the cross plate (I may eat my words on that one later lol) and keep it tucked up nice and tight. I'll be cutting up stuff next...
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If one were to go off the deeper end of chassis reinforcement, I utilized a thread from sn65 (which has been taken down) on areas to focus on. The main point of that information was to have the chassis working as a system, small gains in rigidity and torsional stiffness can be gained, but how does it translate into real word use. The majority of folks who are installing either SFC or inner rockers are pretty much stopping at that point as their cars are not going to a racetrack at any point nor do they want a subjective jungle gym in their car. That being said, my current build (which is ridiculously slow) has incorporated some of the ideals of several builds and innovations from TA racing, B302 and Shelby upgrades. Mind you, I am not building a race car, but an overkill street car that still has a heater, some creature comforts and can be driven to the track (if that ever happens lol).
The main area of focus, after having installed inner rockers and a once piece seat riser (lower seat pan reinforcements to come) was a multi point cage that ties into the roof above the doors, windshield and A pillars.
The down bars are attached to areas that will be transferring suspension component loads to this area. The rear down bars are located directly over the rear coil over mounts and the front has several bars that transfer loads to the torque boxes and to bars welded inside the upper A pillars
There are a bunch of areas I would have loved to apply more triangulation like the tube running across the firewall to the cage would have been great, but it has a stock heater in the way. I'm sure there could have been more areas that might add a little more here and there, but as far as going beyond the "norm", this might take the cake lol.
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One interesting thing with 69-70 convertibles, they do not use a one piece seat riser from the factory. I don't quite understand Ford's reasoning on this. When I was upgrading my '70 FB I looked everywhere for a specific one for that year, they didn't make them, so I hacked up an earlier model to fit.
Ridge Runner and RPM reacted to this -
I like the amount of detail you put into your drawings and appreciate your thought process, but I do not see the same strength as a single formed piece of material (inner portion of the rocker). The upper attachment (referring to picture #7) is the same but the lower connection point is not as strong as a continuous bent piece of metal. The tie-ins to the lower outer rocker and the inner flange on top of the floor helps, but the spot welds would be weaker in torsion as they are only attached in "spots".
The joggle on the inside plate would be fun to do if you do not have access to a press brake or some type of forming equipment. This particular part (if I remember correctly) is at least 14ga (0.083") if not thicker. By the time you are able to form all these parts, get seatbelt nut inserts (weld nut or similar) and get them installed, you would be way ahead by drilling your spot weld holes in you floor, removing 0.250" of material and installing replacement inner rockers for far less time, money, labor and have a known structural strength.
Mike
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20 hours ago, Vicfreg said:I am attaching one that may help. I will ask Mike to also attach a pic, as he has my car, and also, his fastback I believe has the convertible rockers.
I installed them to the rear torque box, much like everyone else, but I did a fillet weld instead of tabs. I wanted a little more contact area, plus it was fun :)
Mach1 Driver reacted to this -
All is well in the lovely wet Carolinas lately.
It's back...
It missed being here so much it had to come back for a visit. Looks like it's getting a new exhaust system and a return line for the EFI along with a few other small mods. It's weird seeing it like this. The first time it came here it wasn't in good shape. It really looks good. There are a bunch of small details with the wiring and plumbing on this. Vic has outdone himself.
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16 hours ago, RPM said:Say hi to Mike for me, and tell him to get his arse back on here :)
Never left LOL!
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I have installed numerous long pans before one piece floors were readily available. My biggest issue with welding in long pans is the tedious butt welding and grinding of the seams. I have installed them with a lap weld, which doesn't look good on the inside. All of these were done on a creeper, not fun. I love to weld, but can't justify all the work it takes when there are easier and cleaner ways to accomplish the task. If the car was some sort of concourse / RARE restoration, patching is the way to go, otherwise get the best full floor pan you can afford and avoid the generic one pan fits all model. 15 hours +/- installed full floor vs 40 + hrs for long pans... As long as the car is braced properly it will not hurt to remove the entire floor.
Toe boards are interesting, especially under the steering column. If the areas are small I would just fabricate the replacement areas from flat sheet metal and butt weld them in place. If you get patch panels you'll end up making them fit and having to undo some areas that are stamped. Patch panels are usually pretty poor in fitment as they are usually cut into small pieces and lack a lot of the original panel detail. You can go with a new firewall, depending on your level of confidence and abilities. I've seen a lot of people new to bodywork put together some really nice cars using these aftermarket parts.
I still like the parts Dynacorn and other vendors are stepping up to make, which is making this hobby much easier to get involved with. 20 years ago there were limited replacement aftermarket parts available and you could get some NOS parts. We are building cars now that several years ago would have been crushed due to the extensive damaged metal. Having these parts where you can buy pre-assembled floor / trunk / front frame rails, cowls, doors... is relying on someone else to weld the parts together accurately, then attempt to put them in a chassis that is 50 years old. I don't like the parts assembled, and much like the OP they have to be cut back apart to properly fit them. I'm thankful to have these parts, even though they don't work sometimes and need some fitting, cause there are more cars back on the roads instead of rusting away in some field or melted down.
Ridge Runner reacted to this -
On 12/12/2018 at 2:35 AM, Rich Ackermann said:Anybody using Dyacorn door shells on the 69/70? How well do they fit? Reading this thread I am beginning to wonder if I should not use Dyacorn sheetmetal in my restoration. Right now I am looking to buy LH & RH floors, Cowl, Quarter skins, and radiator support and was leaning towards Dyacorn.
Any thoughts or comment from those with experience?
Thanks
I have used Dynacorn parts throughout my build, and they are much better than the parts of yester-year. I installed full quarter panels, one fit perfect the other didn't want to go on the car. With a few adjustments it fits. Installed a full cowl, radiator support rear bulk head (whatever the rear seat structure is called) trunk filler, tail light panel, both door skins, outer A pillars... the list is extensive. I wouldn't hesitate to use (and have used) Dynacorn products on several builds, and will continue using their products. They are not perfect by any means, but much better than others. NPD parts (Golden Legion I think) are good also, but probably stamped by the same metal manufacturer and re-branded.
I would highly recommend using a one piece floor instead of having to weld in long pans. The above issue with the floor not fitting the transmission tunnel support is common and requires some finessing, but the factory parts did not fit that area well either.
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2 hours ago, newstang said:... It's amazing that at my cost I'm into this for almost a grand!
Ooouch.
I'm fortunate enough to work for a company that buys a BUNCH of steel, which makes a huge difference in price. We also buy by the pound, but when you have 3 to 5 loads a day, everyday, it makes for big cost savings.
Its looking good, all nice and painted up too.
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I've been where you are, but went a little larger on the tubing (4"x4"x3/16"). I did reference major cross beams in locations to align to major areas (front cross member, front of torque boxes, forward leaf spring mounts and rear cross member). I also incorporated a bolt together and pinned design for future storage, if I ever need it. My rendition is rollable, as the 2-post lift is fantastic for loading and unloading, along with adjustable lock down feet to completely level the table. The rear mounts that bolt to the forward leaf spring areas are fixed and the forward adjustable stands are tack welded to the bottom of the frame rails.
If you are going to build several Mustangs on your table, there will always be something else to add. I spent a lot of time on mine, but it has paid dividends on a couple of repairs.
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That is looking very nice. I see a bunch of parts I could use, hummm.....
Bringing this back to the shop is going to make my build jealous. Least I'll get back to playing with a FORD :)
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I had a wood bed trailer and sold it to get a metal deck, much better. From projects to cinder blocks to steel shipments, it's been through a bunch and keeps on going. I wish I had bought a 18-20 foot trailer, but this 16' dove tail hauls Mustangs just fine.
I didn't do a tool box up front, but did weld up a receiver for a winch, another item that will spoil you. It has been a fantastic investment.
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10 hours ago, Bossed said:Mike, I've been away for some time and thought about your 70 Grabber Green project. I came to check out your progress, but I can't see any of your pictures, any ideas? Hope this message finds you well.
Doing quite well, and I hope you are. Thanks for the inquiry.
As the reality of "nothing last forever" sets in, this site has lost a lot of valuable information with the deletion of thousands of pictures. I am not alone in this issue, and I am greatly saddened by the hundreds of hours of time lost documenting these wonderful builds. I would love to continue documenting my progress here but I am not up for the tons of hours to upload my pictures just to loose them again. A picture is worth a thousand words which should be shared with others. I may look into some type of secure hosting site, but for now, I'm going to continue building but unfortunately will not adding to this thread.
I will continue to be a part of the 69stang community, and look forward to a good resolution to this issue,
Thanks to all who contributed to this thread, and I hope to revive it one day.
Mike
Crazyhorse and RPM reacted to this -
9 hours ago, Mach1 Driver said:Mike, this flange is butt welded to the top of the inner rocker cover? What is that, about 14 ga?
Yes, one of the few "thick" pieces of metal on the car
8 hours ago, moodster said:The inner rocker is 14 gauge. You'll need a decent sized brake to make the custom piece that Mike is showing. I took the opposite approach and modified the torque box to make it fit together nicely.
david
I attempted to fit my outer torque box over the unmodified inner rocker, when I was installing on my '70 FB. I was lazy and didn't want to mess with the box lol.
Mach1 Driver reacted to this -
When I was playing doctor on Vicfreg's '70 convertible I had more practice with this annoying issue. You can clearly see the inner rocker sticking out from under the outer rocker. Both parts were new.
Being anal, and wanting things like torque boxes to fit without modifying, the inner rocker had to be chopped up a little. The aftermarket inner rocker is welded together, and the original pieces were stamped, in the correct shape. A little trimming on the inside plate...
and a small wedge removed from the formed inside part...
makes things work out much better.
There is a flange that I forgot to incorporate into the inner rocker to help attach it to the lower A pillar. I butt welded a strip along the top of the inner plate to fix this issue. On future installs I have a template ready to get this part quickly straightened out.
Hope this explains a little
Mike
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7 hours ago, Mach1 Driver said:So I’m wondering if anyone knows if NEW replacement outer rockers are straight along the lower pinch weld area? Pictures of parts appear to be straight. If so that pretty well proves that the cars fatigue and sag over time. What the heck, they are only 10 times past their expected design life.
The bottom of the outer rocker does taper up 3/4" over a 19" area, front to back. When installing convertible inner rockers, I've had to modify the inners to accommodate this little feature. Your rockers are not sagging, just designed that way.
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7 hours ago, bswor said:Apparently my hosting company has a policy against having too many images on the web servers. I will have to make some changes to the gallery, close it, or maybe switch hosting companies.... I had to delete a lot of images to get us under the threshold. Sorry if you lost any images.
All mine are gone too, again...
Not up for a third attempt
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I agree, never understood the need to call an inanimate object by him or her. I suppose it could have to do with affection for the item. Like these old cars have feelings lol.
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I sent Aeromotive a quick e-mail last Friday asking if they are thinking about having a kit to install into a stock tank. They just got back with me on the inquiry...
Dear Mike,
At this time, no sir, we don’t have a retrofit kit available. In fact though your tank should be similar, in fact there’s no guarantee that our parts would in fact correctly fit your tank. I suppose it could be sent to us for fitment, however that could get pretty costly. Sorry, I wish I had a better answer but we appreciate your interest!
Hope that helps, let us know if you need further assistance and thanks for choosing Aeromotive!
Brett Clow
Tech Director
Well, guess that answered the question, at least for now...
Craig from New Zealand
in Project Progress Forum
Posted · Report reply
Here are a few that I am currently using...
Vic has decided to put Magaflow on his '70. Straight through design stainless construction but might be a little loud if your customer is wanting semi tame. (these will be cleaned up before going on the car cause they look horrible )
On my '70 I chose to have Spintech custom build me some of their chambered mufflers. I had them install one extra set of spin chambers in them since they are coming out the side of the car. Custom built with a price tag to match. All 304 Stainless.
On my DD 2017 Mustang I installed an AWE system. Another straight through design with additional resonators. Coyote motors have a flat head firing order and the muffler placement on these cars is obviously in the rear which makes these cars sound awful with chambered mufflers. The AWE mufflers are high end stainless 304 American made with 180 degree drone canceling technology, which does work quite nicely. I'd bet these mufflers mounted in the stock '69 position would have a nice deep tone, with a Windsor motor as well.
Use to be a Flowmaster lover, but got sick of the drone...